1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,510
[Music]

2
00:00:08,710 --> 00:00:06,789
there's a whole fleet of them look on

3
00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:08,720
the assay

4
00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:10,960
oh my gosh they're all going against the

5
00:00:18,950 --> 00:00:16,390
it was basically a cube with inside of

6
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:18,960
sphere where the points of the cube

7
00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:34,540
[Music]

8
00:00:38,709 --> 00:00:37,120
[Applause]

9
00:00:40,630 --> 00:00:38,719
so this isn't anything that just is

10
00:00:45,910 --> 00:00:40,640
limited to the united states

11
00:00:49,350 --> 00:00:48,389
this is david marlar ufo researcher and

12
00:00:55,510 --> 00:00:49,360
you're listening to

13
00:00:58,950 --> 00:00:58,150
hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

14
00:01:00,750 --> 00:00:58,960
podcast

15
00:01:02,069 --> 00:01:00,760
now an association with

16
00:01:03,990 --> 00:01:02,079
quitethethingmedia.com

17
00:01:05,830 --> 00:01:04,000
uh my name is andy as you will well know

18
00:01:07,910 --> 00:01:05,840
by now and it's a very special podcast

19
00:01:09,510 --> 00:01:07,920
tonight it's one that many many people

20
00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:09,520
have been getting in touch with me about

21
00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:10,880
and asking when's this going to happen

22
00:01:13,270 --> 00:01:12,000
when's it going to be

23
00:01:15,429 --> 00:01:13,280
when's it getting released is it going

24
00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:15,439
to be live um so it's finally recording

25
00:01:18,469 --> 00:01:16,960
right now and it's going to be released

26
00:01:19,270 --> 00:01:18,479
straight away so you'll be listening to

27
00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:19,280
it almost

28
00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:21,680
uh as soon as it finishes i've got a

29
00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:23,280
real personal highlight for myself

30
00:01:27,429 --> 00:01:25,360
and for the podcast on the show as a

31
00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:27,439
true giant in the world of ufos and

32
00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:28,320
journalism

33
00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:30,000
i've got mr george knapp joining me on

34
00:01:33,990 --> 00:01:31,520
the podcast george how are you

35
00:01:34,789 --> 00:01:34,000
hey andy how you doing i'm very very

36
00:01:36,390 --> 00:01:34,799
well uh

37
00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:36,400
second time i've managed to speak to you

38
00:01:39,910 --> 00:01:38,400
in a close proximity obviously a couple

39
00:01:41,030 --> 00:01:39,920
of weeks ago myself and the guys from

40
00:01:43,429 --> 00:01:41,040
uap media

41
00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:43,439
uk were on mystery wire which was a real

42
00:01:46,630 --> 00:01:45,040
honour and pleasure and

43
00:01:48,310 --> 00:01:46,640
it was real fun watching that back as

44
00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:48,320
well so great to speak to you again on

45
00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:49,680
the podcast

46
00:01:53,749 --> 00:01:51,520
i'm pleased to be here i haven't done

47
00:01:56,870 --> 00:01:53,759
any interviews in a while so please to

48
00:01:58,550 --> 00:01:56,880
do the do this one with you awesome

49
00:02:00,469 --> 00:01:58,560
like i say it was very popular there is

50
00:02:01,910 --> 00:02:00,479
a lot of listener questions and folks

51
00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:01,920
you'll understand that i

52
00:02:05,109 --> 00:02:03,600
managed to get about a third of them

53
00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:05,119
into the show and george has been really

54
00:02:08,469 --> 00:02:06,960
generous with his time as well so

55
00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,479
we'll get straight into it and before we

56
00:02:11,190 --> 00:02:10,319
get to all of that george i want to take

57
00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:11,200
a step back

58
00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:13,360
and hear how you became interested in

59
00:02:16,309 --> 00:02:14,560
ufos yourself

60
00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:16,319
at what point was it childhood or a

61
00:02:21,750 --> 00:02:19,040
little bit later on

62
00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:21,760
you know i had a i think i got one ufo

63
00:02:23,790 --> 00:02:23,440
book that was given to me as a gift in

64
00:02:27,270 --> 00:02:23,800
the

65
00:02:29,350 --> 00:02:27,280
1970s 78 79 somewhere in that era

66
00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:29,360
and it was the billy meyer one of those

67
00:02:32,309 --> 00:02:31,440
picture books with the sport model on

68
00:02:34,630 --> 00:02:32,319
the front all those

69
00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:34,640
incredible photos i looked at it i

70
00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:36,400
didn't give it much thought other than

71
00:02:40,229 --> 00:02:38,400
gosh this can't be real can it are these

72
00:02:41,270 --> 00:02:40,239
real and you know it's a coffee table

73
00:02:43,190 --> 00:02:41,280
kind of book

74
00:02:44,869 --> 00:02:43,200
i i read it once and put it away and

75
00:02:48,390 --> 00:02:44,879
didn't give it any other thought

76
00:02:50,790 --> 00:02:48,400
i moved to las vegas in 1979

77
00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:50,800
and it was really sort of a a quirky

78
00:02:53,589 --> 00:02:51,760
decision i was

79
00:02:56,229 --> 00:02:53,599
living in berkeley at the time i was a

80
00:02:57,830 --> 00:02:56,239
debate coach at uc berkeley cal

81
00:02:59,750 --> 00:02:57,840
and my girlfriend and i were trying to

82
00:03:01,830 --> 00:02:59,760
figure out what to do i had

83
00:03:03,910 --> 00:03:01,840
i didn't want to get a phd i didn't want

84
00:03:04,390 --> 00:03:03,920
to try to get a doctorate i was tired of

85
00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:04,400
being

86
00:03:09,670 --> 00:03:07,840
poor and uh so we flipped a coin

87
00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:09,680
i wanted to go to hawaii she wanted to

88
00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:11,200
move to las vegas

89
00:03:14,229 --> 00:03:13,360
uh the coin told us las vegas so we

90
00:03:17,589 --> 00:03:14,239
moved there

91
00:03:18,869 --> 00:03:17,599
and um i met some guys who said they had

92
00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:18,879
a friend who was in the television

93
00:03:22,470 --> 00:03:20,480
business they thought because i

94
00:03:24,789 --> 00:03:22,480
speak and write that i might have a

95
00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:24,799
future in television

96
00:03:28,869 --> 00:03:27,040
it's a long story but i ended up getting

97
00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:28,879
to work for a pbs station

98
00:03:33,430 --> 00:03:32,080
i was hired by klas in 1981 as a general

99
00:03:35,589 --> 00:03:33,440
assignment reporter

100
00:03:36,470 --> 00:03:35,599
and at that time i had no idea what i

101
00:03:38,390 --> 00:03:36,480
had moved to

102
00:03:41,110 --> 00:03:38,400
i had no idea there was a nellis air

103
00:03:42,869 --> 00:03:41,120
force base i had no idea that the nevada

104
00:03:43,430 --> 00:03:42,879
test site the most nuked place in the

105
00:03:44,550 --> 00:03:43,440
world

106
00:03:46,710 --> 00:03:44,560
was out there with all kinds of

107
00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:46,720
scientists and secrets and i certainly

108
00:03:51,509 --> 00:03:49,200
had no idea about area 51.

109
00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:51,519
my news director uh back then robert

110
00:03:54,550 --> 00:03:52,560
stodoll

111
00:03:56,550 --> 00:03:54,560
did have an interest in area 51 and

112
00:04:00,309 --> 00:03:56,560
after i'd been there a while he gave me

113
00:04:02,390 --> 00:04:00,319
a little file the the total existence of

114
00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:02,400
media articles about area 51 and there

115
00:04:05,030 --> 00:04:03,920
hadn't been many it might have been 20

116
00:04:06,949 --> 00:04:05,040
pages

117
00:04:08,309 --> 00:04:06,959
and told me hey you might want to look

118
00:04:09,350 --> 00:04:08,319
into this someday there's a lot of

119
00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:09,360
secrets out there

120
00:04:13,190 --> 00:04:11,040
but he didn't mention anything about

121
00:04:16,229 --> 00:04:13,200
ufos i think 19

122
00:04:18,710 --> 00:04:16,239
the mid-80s um area 51 came into more

123
00:04:19,670 --> 00:04:18,720
focus for us when the u.s government the

124
00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:19,680
air force

125
00:04:26,310 --> 00:04:23,040
illegally seized 89 000 acres of land

126
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:26,320
surrounding uh area 51 groom lake and uh

127
00:04:30,310 --> 00:04:27,600
you know one day

128
00:04:31,350 --> 00:04:30,320
it was public land accessible by anybody

129
00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:31,360
the next day

130
00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:33,360
there's uh air force guys there with

131
00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:35,440
machine guns or submachine guns

132
00:04:39,189 --> 00:04:37,120
guarding it and keeping people away and

133
00:04:39,909 --> 00:04:39,199
that that land has remained off limits

134
00:04:41,909 --> 00:04:39,919
ever since

135
00:04:43,749 --> 00:04:41,919
so that got a lot of our attention our

136
00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:43,759
media attention we ended up

137
00:04:48,310 --> 00:04:46,000
producing a a multi-part series about

138
00:04:49,990 --> 00:04:48,320
the history of area 51 speaking to area

139
00:04:51,909 --> 00:04:50,000
people who had worked out there

140
00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:51,919
people who live around the base but

141
00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:54,240
again it wasn't about ufos that happened

142
00:04:59,590 --> 00:04:57,120
around 1987 a guy named john lear

143
00:05:01,029 --> 00:04:59,600
walked into our tv station to meet my

144
00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:01,039
boss

145
00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:02,800
an investigative reporter named ned day

146
00:05:06,390 --> 00:05:04,240
he was our managing editor

147
00:05:08,390 --> 00:05:06,400
ned had broken a really big story with

148
00:05:09,430 --> 00:05:08,400
the help of lear and the story was the

149
00:05:11,749 --> 00:05:09,440
existence

150
00:05:13,189 --> 00:05:11,759
of a fighter plane that was invisible to

151
00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:13,199
radar we eventually

152
00:05:18,150 --> 00:05:16,240
learned it was the f-117 the stealth

153
00:05:19,990 --> 00:05:18,160
ned day bob stodall had helped break

154
00:05:22,310 --> 00:05:20,000
that story made it

155
00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:22,320
made news all over the world so because

156
00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:24,000
lear had helped tell us about that

157
00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:25,440
plane he had a certain amount of

158
00:05:29,590 --> 00:05:27,520
credibility with us so he came into the

159
00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:29,600
news station and he had a stack of

160
00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:31,360
documents what turned out to be ufo

161
00:05:34,230 --> 00:05:32,160
documents

162
00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:34,240
and plopped them on ned's desk and said

163
00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:36,080
ned this is the biggest story in history

164
00:05:39,189 --> 00:05:37,360
it's a giant cover-up

165
00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:39,199
you're gonna win all kinds of awards you

166
00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:40,960
can blow the roof off this thing

167
00:05:44,790 --> 00:05:42,160
and ned kind of looked through these

168
00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:44,800
papers and he said uh

169
00:05:49,189 --> 00:05:47,440
i this can't be true if this was true i

170
00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:49,199
i'd already know about it so he pushed

171
00:05:53,270 --> 00:05:50,960
it away and thanks but no thanks

172
00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:53,280
i'm sitting over near ned's desk i'm

173
00:05:57,670 --> 00:05:55,360
eavesdropping as i tend to do

174
00:05:59,270 --> 00:05:57,680
as good reporters do and before lear

175
00:05:59,830 --> 00:05:59,280
left i said hey let me take a look at

176
00:06:01,590 --> 00:05:59,840
that stuff

177
00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:01,600
let me get a look at it and he gave me

178
00:06:06,150 --> 00:06:04,000
the pile and i started reading about it

179
00:06:07,749 --> 00:06:06,160
about this kind of interesting ufos and

180
00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:07,759
cover-ups and things like that

181
00:06:11,590 --> 00:06:09,680
at the time i produced a little uh

182
00:06:14,309 --> 00:06:11,600
public affairs show

183
00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:14,319
a 30-minute talk show that would air

184
00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:16,240
sunday morning saturday morning at six

185
00:06:18,870 --> 00:06:17,120
in the morning

186
00:06:20,710 --> 00:06:18,880
very few people watched it i'd have a

187
00:06:23,830 --> 00:06:20,720
normal guest of a city councilman

188
00:06:25,670 --> 00:06:23,840
or a county commissioner and it had a

189
00:06:27,110 --> 00:06:25,680
very limited audience but i thought well

190
00:06:28,629 --> 00:06:27,120
i'll put john lear on this show and

191
00:06:29,270 --> 00:06:28,639
we'll stir things up and see what he

192
00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:29,280
says

193
00:06:34,390 --> 00:06:32,400
put lear on the program in 1987

194
00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:34,400
and he unleashes this torrent of

195
00:06:38,390 --> 00:06:36,160
information that i'd never heard about

196
00:06:40,070 --> 00:06:38,400
this gigantic conspiracy we've got a

197
00:06:41,990 --> 00:06:40,080
secret treaty with aliens

198
00:06:43,270 --> 00:06:42,000
we allow them to abduct us and they give

199
00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:43,280
us their technology

200
00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:45,120
and all the stuff that we now know as

201
00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:47,440
you know some of the most fundamental

202
00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:49,680
if questionable uh theories about the

203
00:06:53,830 --> 00:06:51,520
big picture in ufos

204
00:06:55,749 --> 00:06:53,840
and the reaction from the public really

205
00:06:57,670 --> 00:06:55,759
caught me by surprise

206
00:07:00,150 --> 00:06:57,680
phones are ringing off the hook people

207
00:07:02,150 --> 00:07:00,160
are asking hey is that guy for real

208
00:07:04,070 --> 00:07:02,160
and i realized there is a a great deal

209
00:07:06,230 --> 00:07:04,080
of interest in this subject matter that

210
00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:06,240
i had never considered i and not you

211
00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:07,440
know i didn't put uh

212
00:07:11,909 --> 00:07:10,240
lear on the spot i didn't uh question

213
00:07:13,189 --> 00:07:11,919
him or call him crazy or anything i just

214
00:07:15,510 --> 00:07:13,199
let him tell a story

215
00:07:16,230 --> 00:07:15,520
the following year i had him back on and

216
00:07:18,230 --> 00:07:16,240
he

217
00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:18,240
told an even bigger and more complicated

218
00:07:23,670 --> 00:07:20,960
story and then i had him a third time

219
00:07:25,029 --> 00:07:23,680
and in that third interview he told me

220
00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:25,039
that he knows a guy

221
00:07:28,469 --> 00:07:26,800
who he thinks was going to get to work

222
00:07:29,830 --> 00:07:28,479
out there at area 51

223
00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:29,840
and we're going to get a lot of

224
00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:32,160
information about flying saucers

225
00:07:35,990 --> 00:07:33,520
the guy he was talking about turned out

226
00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:36,000
to be bob lazar four or five months

227
00:07:40,790 --> 00:07:36,880
later

228
00:07:42,070 --> 00:07:40,800
in the spring of 1989 i'm hosting the

229
00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:42,080
five o'clock newscast

230
00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:44,720
on klas and we had a five-minute

231
00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:46,240
interview segment nightly where we'd

232
00:07:49,670 --> 00:07:47,440
have a live guest

233
00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:49,680
and we'd do these interviews and our our

234
00:07:53,029 --> 00:07:51,120
interview guest for that day

235
00:07:54,790 --> 00:07:53,039
bailed on us and we had to fill that

236
00:07:56,869 --> 00:07:54,800
spot and it just occurred to me maybe

237
00:07:58,309 --> 00:07:56,879
lear's ufo guy would be willing to talk

238
00:08:00,150 --> 00:07:58,319
to us so i called lear up

239
00:08:01,909 --> 00:08:00,160
hey that ufo guy you said was going to

240
00:08:02,550 --> 00:08:01,919
work at area 51 do you think he'd talk

241
00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:02,560
to us

242
00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:04,560
i had no idea what had been going on in

243
00:08:07,909 --> 00:08:06,000
bob lazar's life or

244
00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:07,919
that he would even consider talking to

245
00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:10,080
me about some secret stuff in the desert

246
00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:12,960
but things fortuitously worked out he

247
00:08:15,189 --> 00:08:14,080
had been

248
00:08:17,350 --> 00:08:15,199
he'd been worried that they were going

249
00:08:18,869 --> 00:08:17,360
to kill him that he had not been called

250
00:08:20,950 --> 00:08:18,879
back to work that he had

251
00:08:22,390 --> 00:08:20,960
made some real big mistakes in terms of

252
00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:22,400
letting other people know about what

253
00:08:25,749 --> 00:08:23,440
goes on out there

254
00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:25,759
so he agreed to do the interview we had

255
00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:27,360
to black out his face we used a

256
00:08:30,950 --> 00:08:28,080
pseudonym

257
00:08:32,469 --> 00:08:30,960
dennis which was the name of one of his

258
00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:32,479
supervisors out there

259
00:08:35,909 --> 00:08:34,240
and he told his story and what an

260
00:08:38,550 --> 00:08:35,919
incredible story it was

261
00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:38,560
that he we were reverse engineering

262
00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:41,039
alien craft built into the side of a

263
00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:42,240
hangar at a place called

264
00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:45,360
s4 south of groom lake uh that that's

265
00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:47,120
the biggest secret in history that it

266
00:08:50,310 --> 00:08:48,800
wasn't being handled very well

267
00:08:52,070 --> 00:08:50,320
and he admitted that he was really

268
00:08:53,990 --> 00:08:52,080
worried about his future that he might

269
00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:54,000
not be around very long

270
00:08:58,389 --> 00:08:56,720
which is why he agreed to come forward

271
00:09:00,070 --> 00:08:58,399
we get done with that interview the

272
00:09:01,829 --> 00:09:00,080
general manager of the station comes

273
00:09:04,150 --> 00:09:01,839
running in the news director pulls

274
00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:04,160
me in what is the deal on that is that

275
00:09:08,389 --> 00:09:06,160
for real does the guy tell the truth

276
00:09:10,949 --> 00:09:08,399
and to be honest i didn't know we'd put

277
00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:10,959
him on without any pre-screening

278
00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:12,320
i didn't know he was going to say all

279
00:09:14,949 --> 00:09:14,640
that stuff but we were blown away and

280
00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:14,959
the

281
00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:21,360
wanting to know who who he was that uh

282
00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:22,000
interview

283
00:09:25,430 --> 00:09:24,160
prompted all kinds of people to descend

284
00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:25,440
on area 51

285
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:27,760
pretty soon radio hosts were taking bus

286
00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:29,200
loads of people out there

287
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:32,240
to uh stand out there and watch whatever

288
00:09:35,829 --> 00:09:33,760
was going on in the sky

289
00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:35,839
that following weekend uh my news

290
00:09:39,110 --> 00:09:37,680
director and i went up to meet lazar we

291
00:09:39,590 --> 00:09:39,120
decided we got to get to the bottom of

292
00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:39,600
this

293
00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:41,600
so we went up to lear's house which is

294
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:42,800
about a mile from where

295
00:09:47,509 --> 00:09:45,839
i live now and uh and we met lazar and

296
00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:47,519
we spent hours putting him through his

297
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:49,120
paces asking him questions

298
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:50,800
where did you go to school who hired you

299
00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:52,720
what were your duties what were what was

300
00:09:55,990 --> 00:09:54,560
your job title all this stuff

301
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:56,000
and we came out of that meeting a few

302
00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:57,440
hours later and looked at each other and

303
00:10:00,470 --> 00:09:58,240
go

304
00:10:02,470 --> 00:10:00,480
holy crap what if this is real i had

305
00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:02,480
never considered this ufo cover-up stuff

306
00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:04,160
i'd never paid attention to it

307
00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:06,959
my news director said well we could look

308
00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:08,800
into it spend some time looking into it

309
00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:10,320
and we'll put on the air whatever we

310
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:12,320
find it could be a multi-part series

311
00:10:15,829 --> 00:10:14,160
well it ended up being a nine part

312
00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:15,839
series each of those

313
00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:18,640
pieces was like 12 to 13 minutes long

314
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:20,160
and it was the highest rated thing we

315
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:22,399
ever did it had a huge response for our

316
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:23,440
audience

317
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:25,519
and then preparing to tell the czar

318
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:27,920
story i had to sort of learn

319
00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:30,800
a to z ufos everything about it i read

320
00:10:34,150 --> 00:10:31,519
every book

321
00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:34,160
i read all documents i filed my own foia

322
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:34,959
requests

323
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:36,480
i interviewed people all over the

324
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:38,800
country and we put together this series

325
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,480
and i got a crash course

326
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:42,959
in the weird wacky world of ufos and

327
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:45,680
it's i've been on that trail ever since

328
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:47,200
and that's amazing thanks for the

329
00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:49,279
background and the bob lazar story is

330
00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:51,120
one that's been told in books and you

331
00:10:54,069 --> 00:10:51,600
know

332
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:54,079
as you say tv series documentaries if

333
00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:55,440
you watch anything on the history

334
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:57,120
channel those types of shows

335
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:59,040
it's been covered extensively podcasts

336
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,800
and everything as well i do have a few

337
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,800
questions about the bob lazar story and

338
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:04,160
a few things to touch on

339
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:06,800
but just before that you're heavily

340
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,519
involved then

341
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:09,440
and this this topic and subject at that

342
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:10,800
time you're thrown into it

343
00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:13,120
you've got bob who is known as dennis at

344
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:14,560
the time with his pseudonym

345
00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:16,399
what was your colleague's reaction

346
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:17,839
obviously you're saying that the manager

347
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:19,279
at the time was really encouraging this

348
00:11:22,550 --> 00:11:20,959
but what did they think about you being

349
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:22,560
like the ufo guy

350
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:25,040
well my news director bob stoddall who

351
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:26,800
he's the guy who had had an interest in

352
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:28,160
area 51 before

353
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:31,200
my managing editor ned day uh was gone

354
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,160
by then but he

355
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,160
uh had had an interest in it so they

356
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,680
were supportive i think my

357
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,440
other colleagues once i took the deep

358
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:39,360
dive into it generally thought i was

359
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:42,320
crazy you know and especially our our

360
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:44,959
our uh competitors the other tv stations

361
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:46,959
we're always cracking jokes about it

362
00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:49,839
um on radio all the radio hosts when

363
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:50,480
they

364
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,720
run out of belch barf and fart jokes in

365
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:54,480
the morning they'd make fun of the ufo

366
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:55,120
guy

367
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,519
the newspaper in particular the state's

368
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,360
largest newspaper the rj

369
00:12:02,949 --> 00:12:01,360
teed off on me on a regular basis i

370
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:02,959
became the subject of several

371
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,760
editorial cartoons it's me with a

372
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,240
butterfly net chasing flying saucers or

373
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:10,399
there was another one they called it the

374
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,320
marshmallow head chronicles

375
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:14,480
and it showed e.t hitman had come to

376
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:16,880
earth to bump me off to silence me and

377
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:18,880
you know it was all very funny stuff i

378
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,279
have a thick skin i understand it

379
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:24,160
but i was amazed at how how harsh the

380
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:25,279
reaction from

381
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:27,920
journalism was especially in the fact

382
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:28,959
that the fact that they

383
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:30,399
had not done any of the homework they

384
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,680
hadn't read the books they haven't

385
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:33,040
interviewed the witnesses they hadn't

386
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,399
gone out like i had

387
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:36,079
dozens and dozens of times sitting out

388
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:38,240
there in the desert of area 51 looking

389
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:40,480
in the sky to see what's flying around

390
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,240
they found it much easier to just make

391
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:44,160
fun of it than to do the work

392
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,760
and that's the way it's pretty much been

393
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:47,760
ever since is uh and i was

394
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,519
it really has bothered me about my

395
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,360
profession and how they treat it

396
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,040
in that they make a judgment about

397
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,800
whether it's legitimate without

398
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:56,720
doing the actual work sort of like what

399
00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:59,200
science has done

400
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:02,000
is that a reason then why you would look

401
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:02,639
at

402
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:06,160
which is still

403
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,839
almost a new type of journalism if you

404
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:09,360
want to call it that as an old-school

405
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,720
journalist you might not like to call it

406
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:11,760
journalism but

407
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,120
social media is huge and there's no

408
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,440
doubt joe rogan's podcast has a massive

409
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:17,600
massive reach you go an interview on

410
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:19,120
there and it's millions of hits millions

411
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,639
of lessons downloads and

412
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,959
more eyes on the subject you've been

413
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:24,480
involved in a few of those appearances

414
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:25,680
you've been on there yourself and

415
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,279
recently you accompanied

416
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,920
with mr bigelow along for his as well

417
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,440
which obviously we got teased about on

418
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,639
social media

419
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:34,800
do those appearances have the desired

420
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:35,839
impact for you

421
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,000
in 2020 and 2021 that you're looking for

422
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,399
yeah i think so i mean it's not exactly

423
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:44,560
the same as say a 60 minutes type

424
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:45,600
platform

425
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:48,560
but uh it's important that we reach the

426
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:49,440
public

427
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:51,920
uh where they are joe rogan has a huge

428
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,959
audience and

429
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:54,399
when he speaks about this stuff and

430
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,079
takes it seriously

431
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:58,560
it it lands on people it sticks in their

432
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,519
heads so

433
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:01,519
i think it's valuable and and right now

434
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,199
is a unique opportunity i'm sure we'll

435
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,360
talk about this in a little bit but

436
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:07,279
right now the changes have been underway

437
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:08,720
the last three years that i never

438
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:10,160
thought i would see in my life i mean

439
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,360
it's been an amazing

440
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:14,000
process those first 30 years of almost

441
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,639
30 years of me plugging away at this

442
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,720
i'm pounded and pounded away trying to

443
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:20,639
squeeze little tiny bits and pieces of

444
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,519
information

445
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,279
out of the government get it confirmed

446
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:25,440
find sources who worked on the inside

447
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,000
and it was tough sledding it was slow

448
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:30,560
going slow process um

449
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,079
what's happened the last three years

450
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:34,880
since december 2017

451
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:37,600
since ttsa put the put its organization

452
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,320
together

453
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,560
since the new york times did that

454
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,240
everything has has changed

455
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,639
it's changed everything so now you can

456
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:46,480
go on a program like joe rogan

457
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:48,320
and and talk about it now you can have

458
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:50,320
60 minutes interview robert bigelow and

459
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:52,000
ask him the alien questions

460
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:54,720
and people don't snicker quite as loudly

461
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,440
it's

462
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:57,519
an astonishing turnaround in a short

463
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,560
amount of time and

464
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:00,560
and i know it's never fast enough for

465
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:02,320
people who want all the answers and want

466
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,519
it right now

467
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,600
but man that the the things that we have

468
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:07,760
learned in the last couple of years

469
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:09,519
are astonishing when you look at it in

470
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,880
the broad scope of ufo history

471
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,639
not to jump ahead but do you foresee a

472
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:16,399
time where the subject is going to be

473
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,600
back on shows like

474
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,600
60 minutes in a serious way and

475
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:21,040
obviously 60 minutes is a massive show

476
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,480
in the united states but

477
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:24,480
in the uk could we see that on you know

478
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,600
the bbc news

479
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:27,680
prime time is it going to be on those

480
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:29,600
massive channels again or

481
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:32,480
do you think ufology or ufos is a topic

482
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,079
has to go down the route of that

483
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,320
alternative media

484
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,320
i can't speak for the bbc i know i

485
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,000
learned a lot in talking to you

486
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:42,800
and dan and dave about how how reticent

487
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,800
they are and reluctant to take the topic

488
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,560
seriously but i know that american

489
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:48,720
journalism has changed and it's largely

490
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,440
because of the

491
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,440
new york times i've told the story

492
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:53,839
before that that whole story about atip

493
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:54,800
asap

494
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:57,120
the secret program the secret study

495
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:59,199
conducted by bigelow the contract he got

496
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:00,079
with the dia

497
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:02,079
i i was allowed to know about that stuff

498
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:03,920
and i kept it quiet because that was the

499
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,759
agreement i made

500
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,279
so when i learned that the new york

501
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,800
times was getting ready to do

502
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:11,040
to do the story i complained about it i

503
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:12,560
said hey why do they get to do this

504
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:13,519
story i've been

505
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:15,040
sitting on it for a long time i'd like

506
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:17,920
to do it and i had to gently be told by

507
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,959
three different people whom i respect

508
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:23,040
look if you do the story it's another

509
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,720
story from a ufo guy

510
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:26,639
if the new york times does the story it

511
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,079
changes everything

512
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,320
and i had to reluctantly acknowledge

513
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:31,920
that i am not the new york times and

514
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:33,199
that they were right so

515
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:35,680
i held off in doing anything that might

516
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:37,839
cause them to drop the story

517
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,600
and i made an agreement with senator

518
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:41,360
reid for example that after this thing

519
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,959
breaks i want the first interview with

520
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:43,920
you on camera

521
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:47,040
and a deal that he kept and i knew that

522
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:47,440
even

523
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,040
the new york times did the story that

524
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:51,360
there was so much more to tell that i

525
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,800
knew that they didn't know

526
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,480
so i went along with that and it really

527
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:56,160
worked out the new york times did that

528
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,199
story

529
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:59,680
and it legitimized the subject matter

530
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:00,720
for other media

531
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:05,120
you know washington post la times

532
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,640
60 minutes had interviewed bigelow

533
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:08,720
before but all these other media

534
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,640
fox msnbc cnn they've all done their ufo

535
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:14,559
stories as a result because

536
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:16,480
in their view the new york times is the

537
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:17,760
paper of record

538
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:20,240
it's a legitimate story if they do it

539
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:21,360
and and it is

540
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:24,160
that that media ripple effect is still

541
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,679
unfolding as we speak

542
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,079
because the media took it seriously and

543
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:30,320
it was legitimate for them to discuss

544
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:32,080
members of congress were able to come

545
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:33,679
out of their their closet

546
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:36,000
and who had had secret interest in the

547
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,720
topic

548
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,559
and then they they held you know a

549
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:40,320
number of secret briefings closed door

550
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:41,120
briefings

551
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:42,880
with for their staff then for elected

552
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:44,160
members of congress

553
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,840
and we know where that has led i mean

554
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,360
it's an amazing effect

555
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:49,440
what that new york times story has done

556
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,600
how it's affected media in this country

557
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,520
i don't know about the media in your

558
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:54,960
country

559
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,480
you've brought up so let's talk about

560
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,320
that now and you almost them had my

561
00:18:01,430 --> 00:18:00,240
segue down word for word where i was

562
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,440
going to bring up the fact that you

563
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:02,960
could have broke that story before the

564
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,080
new york times

565
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:06,240
i believe on coast to coast i heard

566
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:07,840
you'd mention that

567
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,679
it was the greater good that you let the

568
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,600
new york times basically have that story

569
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,440
because it was going to go to a bigger

570
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:15,520
audience as big an audience as you have

571
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:17,360
and as big an audience as coast to coast

572
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:18,880
mystery wire you know what you could

573
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:19,520
reach

574
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:22,000
it's still not the new york times so you

575
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,160
let leslie key and ralph blumenthal

576
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:26,480
go with that story but you did get the

577
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:28,480
interview with senator read out of it

578
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:31,600
so we know what happened in 2017 it's

579
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:33,679
been well documented and talked about

580
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:36,799
um over three years now down the line

581
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:39,280
ttsa has completely changed especially

582
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:41,120
the last kind of four or five months

583
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:43,200
and lou is gone chris has gone and

584
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,120
others have since left as well

585
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:47,120
what have your thoughts been on how this

586
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,120
has played out is this what you expected

587
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:51,280
when ttsa hit the scene back in december

588
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:53,200
2017

589
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,880
kinda you know it's always been a sort

590
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:56,960
of a two organizations in one there was

591
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:59,360
the side that tom had always controlled

592
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:01,600
uh the entertainment side of it and then

593
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:03,679
the serious engineering

594
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,480
and research side that chris and lou and

595
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:08,480
steve justice represented

596
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:10,480
so there was always two organizations

597
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:11,679
under one roof

598
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,200
uh i didn't know that the split would

599
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:15,200
come when it did but um

600
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:17,200
i am not surprised i think it's a

601
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,640
healthy thing i think

602
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:20,640
both organizations both different

603
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:22,000
entities um

604
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:23,520
are going to be pursuing their own paths

605
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,240
and i think they are mutually supportive

606
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:28,480
uh you know tom has some really exciting

607
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,760
projects uh that

608
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:31,679
in mind that he's told me about on the

609
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:33,280
entertainment side that's what he does

610
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:34,720
that's what he's always done

611
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:36,400
the other guys we can talk about what

612
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,160
they're up to in a bit but um

613
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:40,559
i think it's a it's a good development i

614
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:41,360
think it's going to be

615
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:43,200
good for both of them i believe that

616
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,000
they genuinely like each other and still

617
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:48,240
talk all the time and they they're

618
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:49,440
moving the

619
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:52,080
subject forward in different arenas you

620
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,760
have to give a lot of credit i know tom

621
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:55,679
delong takes a lot of crap

622
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:58,320
for things that he'll post or things he

623
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,400
says he is a free spirit

624
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,880
but he is the central reason why all

625
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:04,480
this changed whether we like to admit it

626
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:05,440
or not he did it

627
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,159
and it's his own strong will and his own

628
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,600
strong interest in the subject that

629
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,440
moves this ball down the field

630
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:13,200
i remember him calling me up out of the

631
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:15,039
blue i had never met him before he got

632
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:16,240
my phone number

633
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:17,919
called me while i was out in the desert

634
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:19,760
on an assignment

635
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,440
and we started talking about ufos this

636
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,440
was like 2011.

637
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,880
and we kind of hit it off so we

638
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:26,960
continued a conversation

639
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:29,120
ever since and would exchange

640
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:31,120
information and ideas and bounce things

641
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:32,159
off of each other

642
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:35,120
he had an organization a publication

643
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:36,799
called strange times back then where he

644
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,360
would

645
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:39,360
uh it was an online sort of magazine

646
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,480
where he'd post

647
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:43,039
ufo stories and paranormal stuff and

648
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,080
weird things

649
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:47,360
as part of his company back then um and

650
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:49,440
i i had him on coast to coast i think

651
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,640
probably his first

652
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,799
serious ufo interview was on coast to

653
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,320
coast and he was remarkably

654
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,240
knowledgeable he knew a lot about it

655
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,559
he clearly had done his homework uh i

656
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,000
end up having him again

657
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,559
and then he would share with me progress

658
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:04,240
that he was making along the way

659
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:07,440
uh when he first made his inroads using

660
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:08,880
his celebrity sorta

661
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:12,000
to get into the inside of a major

662
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:13,520
aerospace company

663
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,679
where he was asking very blunt questions

664
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:17,120
about this subject matter

665
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:19,280
and it took a while for them to open up

666
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,400
to him

667
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,400
but eventually he worked his way up sort

668
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,159
of the food chain

669
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:26,720
one guy he would interview with and meet

670
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:28,240
him and then they would share

671
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,640
an introduction to somebody else further

672
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,679
up the chain

673
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,080
and uh it was legitimate and i saw it

674
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:35,840
unfold as it happened

675
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,080
he would share with me in confidence as

676
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,919
long as i kept it to myself

677
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:42,000
the people he was meeting with how real

678
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:44,000
it was the progress he was making before

679
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:46,640
he put tsa together and it was really an

680
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:47,600
exciting time

681
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,280
and i know a lot of people in the ufo

682
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:51,360
world thought it's a bunch of baloney

683
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:54,080
until some of tom's emails were included

684
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:55,760
in the wikileaks leak

685
00:22:01,750 --> 00:21:58,960
there he is writing to john podesta

686
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,760
one of my emails in there was to podesta

687
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,360
as well and it's kind of a

688
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,760
it's an unsettling thing to see your

689
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,960
private emails

690
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:09,039
dumped out into into a public arena like

691
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:10,960
that but in effect those

692
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,280
that leak confirmed that tom really was

693
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:15,120
talking to high-level people

694
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:16,960
and you know and then he put together

695
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:19,840
ttsa in a very quiet way

696
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,280
it gave lou elizondo a place to land

697
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:25,200
i don't think he planned it that way

698
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:26,720
anybody planned it that way but tom

699
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:28,080
created an organization

700
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:30,880
at precisely the right time because lou

701
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,520
left

702
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,440
the department of defense that's where

703
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:35,600
he ended up with other very credible

704
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:36,159
people

705
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:37,760
who had pursued the topic for a long

706
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:40,240
time um you know hal put off

707
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:43,360
and chris mellon uh and um

708
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:46,960
anyway uh it it worked out really well

709
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,200
i don't disagree that ttsa changed the

710
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:51,200
game tom delong played a huge part in

711
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:52,080
that as well

712
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:53,760
as excitable as he could appear

713
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:55,280
sometimes especially with some of his

714
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:56,240
tweets he put out

715
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:58,320
that seemed pretty incredible especially

716
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:59,760
for those others that are looking for

717
00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:00,480
you know

718
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,240
where are the aliens where are they from

719
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:04,159
you know what are they made of and

720
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,919
put out some pretty incredible what-if

721
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:08,080
scenarios via twitter that got everyone

722
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:09,360
talking

723
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,280
however is it fair that a lot of people

724
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:16,080
invested emotionally and financially in

725
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:17,600
ttsc as a company

726
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,760
i was a massive supporter i've got the

727
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,280
hoodies and the stickers and stuff as

728
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:23,039
well um

729
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:26,640
does tom still owe people an explanation

730
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:28,880
and an interview given what's happened

731
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,919
recently

732
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:31,840
many would say he's been very quiet and

733
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:34,240
too quiet given he was very vocal at one

734
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:35,679
point

735
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:38,000
well i will share privately we've had

736
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:40,159
many conversations and exchanges he and

737
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:40,400
i

738
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,039
of ttsa

739
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:01,840
i don't uh you know i don't tell tom

740
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:02,720
what to do

741
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,200
i give advice here and there i think he

742
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:07,200
probably does have a long-term strategy

743
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,159
in mind and yeah

744
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,840
i agree with you i think he should come

745
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,919
out with some statements i hope he will

746
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:13,679
he has some as i said some pretty cool

747
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:16,000
projects in the works right now

748
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:17,840
on his side of it i think the former

749
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,400
ttsa guys have some really cool plans

750
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:22,799
in in the works as well and that they

751
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:23,760
hopefully will

752
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:26,559
be able to tell the public about it soon

753
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,120
but again

754
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:29,360
going back to my main point tom delong

755
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,240
made this happen

756
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:32,799
and it changed the world whether ttsa is

757
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:34,320
the same entity or not

758
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:35,840
it did change the world now remember

759
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,600
that october 11

760
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,600
2017 they go out on that stage and

761
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:41,520
announce the creation of ttsa and then

762
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:42,640
up pops lou

763
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:44,159
and there was very little media

764
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:45,679
attention it got very little attention

765
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,360
in ufo circles i think

766
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:49,760
leslie kane wrote about it for usa today

767
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,520
and and klaus covered it

768
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:53,520
and that was about it little did we know

769
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:55,760
what they had in the works i uh two days

770
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:56,960
after that event

771
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:59,279
lou elizondo came to las vegas and met

772
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:00,960
with me and robert bigelow

773
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:03,520
and we got to see those videos for the

774
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:04,159
first time

775
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:06,320
a couple of months before the new york

776
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,200
times broke them

777
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:09,919
but those guys that team lou and chris

778
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:10,559
and tom

779
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,679
and hal lobbied the new york times

780
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:15,120
convinced them that there was enough

781
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:16,720
information to do a story

782
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:18,400
they worked it really hard and as a

783
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:20,400
result of that it blew this topic wide

784
00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:20,880
open

785
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,960
and if ttsa never does anything else

786
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:25,200
again they at least did that and it

787
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:26,080
changed the

788
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:28,799
hit the trajectory of ufos forever i am

789
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:30,159
sure

790
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,320
that tom has some well i i don't want to

791
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:34,240
say i i did invest in it

792
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:37,039
uh late in the first period i didn't

793
00:25:39,909 --> 00:25:38,480
really want to do it because i was

794
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:39,919
worried after i'd done some stories

795
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,440
about it it would be a conflict

796
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:43,360
so i took my investment which is not

797
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,520
that big put it in a place where i can

798
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:46,799
never benefit from it

799
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:49,120
and i know i you know it's not a good

800
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:50,559
investment everyone said it was a

801
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:51,760
terrible investment

802
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:54,640
i i know i put my money into it as a way

803
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,600
to support it

804
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:58,080
i didn't think i'd ever see it again not

805
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:59,279
a dime of it

806
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:02,000
because the best uh investment experts

807
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:03,760
that i know robert bigelow and jacques

808
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:04,400
valet

809
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,840
had said it's a bad investment you're

810
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,200
not don't do it if you're doing this to

811
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,120
make money it's not a good idea

812
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:11,120
i think like a lot of people i put money

813
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:12,799
into it to support it not to

814
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,440
as an investment where i get a return

815
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:17,120
people like myself like i i

816
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,960
looked at those initial investments and

817
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:20,480
they were far lower than what they came

818
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,760
to be later on with

819
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:23,840
what they were asking for for a minimum

820
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:25,520
my investment was obviously

821
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:27,279
i talked about a lot on the podcast and

822
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:28,960
it was ttsa was a big part of me

823
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,559
creating this podcast but i went and

824
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:32,320
bought some hoodies some t-shirts

825
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:33,679
i bought the stickers and that was my

826
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,000
way i kind of shown support as well

827
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:38,320
tom in the last day or so has uh been on

828
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:40,000
social media

829
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:41,840
mentioning that the movies and books are

830
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:44,240
coming along and they plan to push

831
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,960
a lot out through stories and get a lot

832
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:48,720
of you know facts and you know

833
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,320
nuggets in there and easter eggs as

834
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,080
people like to call them do you

835
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:55,039
think that ttsa as it is now then still

836
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,400
has a place

837
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:58,080
in pushing forward if you want to call

838
00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:59,440
it disclosure

839
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:01,360
in that scenario more than just being an

840
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:03,360
entertainment company

841
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:05,200
yeah i think i think a fictional

842
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,559
narrative a movie

843
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:08,720
can affect us in ways that a straight

844
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:10,000
news story does not

845
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:11,520
uh you know close encounters are the

846
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,279
third kind for example is a movie that

847
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:15,279
really is based a lot on factual

848
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:18,240
uh incidents and a factual narrative

849
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,240
it's told in a fictional setting and i

850
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,919
think it's had a powerful impact over

851
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,600
the years the same with a spielberg

852
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,360
series called taken that was on the air

853
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:26,880
i think nine or ten parts

854
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:29,679
about abductions that is a terrific

855
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,240
subtle

856
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,720
influence on the public and the public's

857
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:34,640
understanding of the broader issues in

858
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:36,720
the broader history of these topics so

859
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:40,399
you can pursue fictional

860
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:43,919
works novels movies

861
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,480
animated movies and still have an effect

862
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:48,320
on the public's general understanding of

863
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,679
these issues in a way

864
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:51,440
that a new york times story or a

865
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,360
60-minute story does not

866
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:56,240
i think they are complementary the the

867
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:56,960
fictional

868
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,039
approach the non-fiction approach the

869
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:00,960
straight news approach

870
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,399
they're all ways to reach the same

871
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:05,120
audience which is all of us

872
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,039
i do hope tom sits down one day with

873
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,960
someone especially like yourself and has

874
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:10,320
that conversation that people kind of

875
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,200
want to hear

876
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:13,200
not necessarily like you say a much

877
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,320
slinging um

878
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,080
show because they're still very much

879
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:17,679
amicable and speaking to each other in

880
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,559
the background

881
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:20,000
but just to let people know what did

882
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:21,279
happen with the initial goals and

883
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:22,159
visions and

884
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,679
the anti-gravity craft that they were

885
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:25,360
putting pictures out about and you know

886
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,799
what's going to happen with all of that

887
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,559
and hopefully that's still to come

888
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:30,640
lou elizondo lozando you touched on as

889
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:32,000
well has obviously gone his separate

890
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:33,679
ways and i had low on the podcast a few

891
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,399
weeks ago

892
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,919
he'd done a bit of a media wave of

893
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,159
interviews as well now he's just been

894
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,840
tweeting and he's been very vocal since

895
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:41,919
he left ttsa which has been great

896
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:43,840
he's um had a great social media

897
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:45,360
presence which is something that he was

898
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,880
quite reluctant to do from what we hear

899
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:48,320
from people in the past as well

900
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,600
but he's really putting himself out

901
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,520
there especially on twitter

902
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:53,120
he's been tweeting about the upcoming

903
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,720
uap task force report

904
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:56,640
and what people would like to see so he

905
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:58,480
was actively asking what do you want to

906
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,440
see the people

907
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,440
in this report i'd like to ask you

908
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,360
george what would you like to see

909
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:05,440
in the report yourself and then also

910
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,720
what do you think we're going to see

911
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:11,120
well my my expectations have been

912
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,760
lowered

913
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,520
you know i was pretty excited about it i

914
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,200
had heard that was in the works

915
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:17,840
um you know that there were indications

916
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,320
that something like the uap task force

917
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:22,799
was already up and running as ever since

918
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:24,000
the end of atip

919
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:25,919
in one form or another and then it

920
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:29,039
became formalized in june of last year

921
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:31,120
and then at the in december of last year

922
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:32,880
we learned that there's a specific

923
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,799
mandate from the senate intelligence for

924
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:36,320
them to put together this report for

925
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,279
congress

926
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:39,520
and presumably to be released to the

927
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:41,520
public that was pretty exciting

928
00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:45,120
but since then in january almost as soon

929
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,880
as that legislation was signed and went

930
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,919
into effect

931
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,200
where the clock was ticking the

932
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,279
six-month clock was ticking some

933
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:53,039
very dramatic changes happened for the

934
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,880
task force it was already a pretty small

935
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:55,840
organization

936
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,080
but it was headed by a guy who was

937
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,559
absolutely the right person for that job

938
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,360
had a high level of clearance had access

939
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:05,440
to just about anything he wanted

940
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:08,159
i had a great deal of experience and

941
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,840
knowledge of the field had been

942
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,600
poking around into this subject for a

943
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:13,600
long time he was yanked out of it pulled

944
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:14,320
out of it

945
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:17,440
uh completely unexpected uh unexpected

946
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:19,120
by him and everybody else associated

947
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:20,159
with the topic

948
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:22,000
uh just they called it a you know a

949
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,679
normal rotation which

950
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,600
it seemed to me like an indication that

951
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:27,760
whoever was calling the shots

952
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:29,919
wanted to kneecap this this program

953
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,440
before it ever got started

954
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,679
now the uh i don't know the guy who's in

955
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,960
charge of it now

956
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,880
i have heard a great deal of things good

957
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:38,000
things about him that he is

958
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:39,679
knowledgeable and hardworking

959
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,840
however he was given no budget no staff

960
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:46,240
and he has a full-time job so him

961
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,360
writing the report

962
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,679
for the uap task force to congress he

963
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:51,600
has to do that on his own time

964
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:54,399
uh now how how comprehensive a report do

965
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,600
you think that will be

966
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:57,360
in addition he does not have the same

967
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,720
security clearances

968
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,880
as the guy who had the job before so

969
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:02,240
there's a lot of the most sensitive

970
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:03,600
information that he will not be allowed

971
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,640
to see

972
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:06,480
i am hopeful that he will be able to

973
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:07,840
produce a report that has

974
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,080
dramatic cases involving national

975
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,840
security because that's the mandate for

976
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,880
the task force

977
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,880
and be able to present that to congress

978
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,480
but i suspect what will be given to

979
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,399
congress will include a bunch of annex

980
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:20,399
reports that the public will not be

981
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,919
allowed to see

982
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:23,360
i don't even know if this guy can get

983
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:26,080
access to them so my expectations are

984
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:26,720
low

985
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:29,600
however that said i think it's

986
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:30,480
significant

987
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:33,840
that the dod has a mandate from congress

988
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,440
to produce a report

989
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:37,279
even if they end up getting an extension

990
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:38,720
beyond june

991
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:41,600
uh and need more time to put it together

992
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,200
the fact that it's even being done

993
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,679
at all is an amazing step forward and so

994
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,000
i look forward to whatever they produce

995
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:50,960
but i'm not expecting great revelations

996
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,919
about

997
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:54,080
where the flying saucers are stashed or

998
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:56,799
the metamaterials or the alien bodies

999
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:59,200
do you see this turning into being part

1000
00:32:02,389 --> 00:32:00,240
one

1001
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,399
of a further report down the line is

1002
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:03,840
that at this point the best we can

1003
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:05,279
expect

1004
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:09,519
becomes the basis to create a permanent

1005
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:10,399
program

1006
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,799
uap task force says this is a legitimate

1007
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,880
issue we have information from all the

1008
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:16,720
different branches of the military

1009
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,880
these incidents have been serious they

1010
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:20,640
do involve national security

1011
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,600
they do involve aviation safety and it

1012
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:25,200
needs to be studied further and then the

1013
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:26,320
result of that being

1014
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,000
that congress creates a permanent

1015
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:30,240
program that will investigate this

1016
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:33,360
ongoing maybe something separate from uh

1017
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:33,760
the

1018
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,360
you know

1019
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:39,039
put it somewhere else where it's not

1020
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:40,720
subject to the kinds of pressures that

1021
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:41,120
the

1022
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,640
could you see someone like lou going

1023
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:52,159
back into that position at that point

1024
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:52,960
then

1025
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,919
i've asked him i've asked him and the

1026
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,679
answer basically i think is yes i mean

1027
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,279
he doesn't want to commit himself to it

1028
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,000
but i think he would do that yeah

1029
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,760
and what role do you see christopher

1030
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:05,679
mellon having in any of this going

1031
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:06,559
forward

1032
00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:08,159
well christopher millen is really the

1033
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:10,159
unsung hero in all this stuff i mean he

1034
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:10,880
has made

1035
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,760
so much progress always below the radar

1036
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:15,200
always doing it privately

1037
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:17,840
his engagement with members of congress

1038
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:18,960
and senior staff

1039
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:21,279
armed services intelligence committees

1040
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:22,240
has

1041
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,240
made remarkable breakthroughs he's been

1042
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:26,720
such a key player in getting the ear

1043
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:29,760
of key policymakers lawmakers and and

1044
00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:31,679
presenting a credible case for them so

1045
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,559
that they

1046
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,320
are hooked they want to know i mean

1047
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:36,000
you've seen a couple of sound bites from

1048
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:37,360
people like marco rubio

1049
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,679
rubio and senator warner where they are

1050
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:41,360
committed to the idea this is real

1051
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:43,360
it's a genuine concern and we want to

1052
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:45,039
get to the bottom of it now that's

1053
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,880
that's chris mellon's work that's that's

1054
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,240
what he's done and uh

1055
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:49,760
i would imagine he would continue to

1056
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:51,840
liaison with congress congress

1057
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:54,640
between congress and the dod in support

1058
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,919
of whatever kind of program

1059
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:57,760
might be created assuming it's going to

1060
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:59,519
be created

1061
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,880
you're right that he's definitely got a

1062
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,799
quieter public profile as well when it

1063
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:04,559
comes to social media and interviews

1064
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,960
he's

1065
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,480
very much a hard man to get a hold of

1066
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:08,320
i'm sure you probably know that as well

1067
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,800
um but in speaking to david marlar just

1068
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,720
a few weeks ago he was mentioning that

1069
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:14,320
chris mellon's got a huge passion for

1070
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:16,399
the subject particularly when it comes

1071
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,079
to black triangle ufos

1072
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:20,320
and he still keeps in touch with chris

1073
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,280
regularly sending

1074
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:23,599
me emails about cases that chris might

1075
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,800
be interested in so

1076
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,399
i think that speaks volumes for chris

1077
00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:28,159
merlin's passion and it's great to have

1078
00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:29,839
someone like him with his

1079
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:32,079
connections and influence involved in a

1080
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:33,359
topic as well

1081
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,800
so it seems to be within good hands

1082
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:36,159
going forward and lewis said the same as

1083
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,599
you that the the new head of the task

1084
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,280
force is someone that we can still have

1085
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:41,440
have trust in however much their hands

1086
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:43,280
may be maybe tied

1087
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:45,359
just taking a bit of a step back then uh

1088
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,560
we're talking at the start of course

1089
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:48,240
about bob lazar now you famously broke

1090
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:48,960
the story

1091
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,320
people can go and get the book dreamland

1092
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:54,079
people can watch any number of series on

1093
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:55,679
it as well now you're

1094
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:57,760
you yourself are linked to the story

1095
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,440
almost as much as bob

1096
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:01,440
as especially to those of us in the ufo

1097
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:02,560
community

1098
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,000
what do you think has made bob

1099
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:08,880
bob's story endure now for going on 30

1100
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:09,359
years

1101
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:12,640
plus uh that's a good question you know

1102
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:13,200
i

1103
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:24,800
whether we would um

1104
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:27,280
we would pursue the story or not too i

1105
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,880
think there's an assumption that

1106
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,560
you know we in the tv business we only

1107
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,560
do things to get ratings and of course

1108
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:34,480
ratings are part of it we want people to

1109
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:35,760
watch what we do

1110
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,320
but for klas my employer i mean that's a

1111
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:40,560
jewel of an organization it's supported

1112
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,839
me all these years

1113
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,440
because it's learned to trust me on

1114
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:45,920
other sensitive and important stories so

1115
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:48,400
when i come to it with a with to them

1116
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:49,599
with a

1117
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,400
ufo story they know that i approach it

1118
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:53,680
the same way as uh

1119
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,079
as other stories and you know the whole

1120
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,320
area 51 thing has been a mixed bag for

1121
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:00,000
me i think it probably

1122
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,160
um in the long run has not helped my

1123
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:04,240
career and i think people think

1124
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:06,960
they think of me as the ufo guy i do

1125
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:09,359
this percentage of stories about ufos

1126
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:10,079
and

1127
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,520
this percentage of stories about

1128
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:13,760
everything else but this is the one that

1129
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:14,480
is stuck

1130
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:17,599
and uh for good or for bad you know i

1131
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:18,480
get uh

1132
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:20,800
dozens of of letters and emails and

1133
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,000
social messages

1134
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:24,960
uh about area 51 and lazar all the time

1135
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,359
i mean here it is 31 years later

1136
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,359
and a majority of them what i see at

1137
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:31,680
least on social media are hostile

1138
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:34,560
i get peppered with really accusatory

1139
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:35,599
questions

1140
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,040
people telling me how much they don't

1141
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:39,280
believe me wanting to draw me into

1142
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:40,320
arguments

1143
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:42,160
uh and answer questions that i've

1144
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,079
answered a million times before and

1145
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:46,560
i rarely engage with people like that no

1146
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,640
matter how insulting they are to me

1147
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,320
because i consider it a waste of my time

1148
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:52,480
and you know i initially worked

1149
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,880
almost 32 years ago it told the story as

1150
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:56,240
it unfolded for me

1151
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:58,240
uh warts and all when there were weak

1152
00:37:01,990 --> 00:36:59,760
spots or gray areas

1153
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:02,000
or problem areas i told our audience

1154
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:02,960
along the way

1155
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:05,359
you know the the stories were written

1156
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:07,040
for las vegas tv viewers

1157
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:09,280
they were not written for ufologists and

1158
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:11,280
in the decades since i mean every news

1159
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,480
report we produced

1160
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:14,480
every paragraph every sound bite every

1161
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:16,800
sentence has been analyzed and picked

1162
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:17,280
apart

1163
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:19,839
and if people go into it and they want

1164
00:37:23,829 --> 00:37:21,599
to find fault with it they're gonna find

1165
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:23,839
it um you know

1166
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:25,359
three decades ago i didn't have the

1167
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,440
internet to use as a search so we had to

1168
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:29,359
do all things by hand and

1169
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,320
good old-fashioned uh shoe leather and

1170
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:34,240
in the beginning it did seem important

1171
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,880
to me that

1172
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:36,400
i wanted people to believe me because i

1173
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:38,079
had never had a story where i dig into

1174
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,839
this stuff i dig up all this information

1175
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,040
i tell it honestly

1176
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:43,520
as i've dug it up and have so many

1177
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:44,640
people

1178
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,680
who presumably would be interested in it

1179
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,839
automatically shut it out and want to

1180
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:51,599
argue about it and say that can't be

1181
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:53,680
true and here's why and it's all

1182
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:56,800
uh bs and i must be working for the cia

1183
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:59,200
or something like that you know in the

1184
00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:00,800
very first story

1185
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:03,040
uh i reported you know we could not

1186
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,079
confirm for example

1187
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:06,000
the schools where lazar claimed to have

1188
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:07,599
attended or the degrees that he claimed

1189
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,320
to have

1190
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:10,640
very first story and i told that in that

1191
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:12,240
very first story where we introduced

1192
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,040
lazar

1193
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:15,280
and then a couple months later someone

1194
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:16,560
else went out and

1195
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:18,640
and followed our tracks went to the same

1196
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,680
schools

1197
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,680
and got the same information and they go

1198
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:23,760
aha lazar is a fake

1199
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:26,800
he didn't go to mit or caltech

1200
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,960
it's as if it's a gotcha moment that

1201
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:30,400
they have discovered on their own no it

1202
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,119
wasn't

1203
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,920
we we reported that i reported step by

1204
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:36,160
step the problems i ran into with los

1205
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:36,880
alamos

1206
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:39,839
and i will admit that after the schools

1207
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,320
lazar

1208
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:42,000
claimed to have gone told me he wasn't

1209
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:43,839
there they had no record

1210
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,160
that was pretty close to the end of it

1211
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:48,400
and i decided to give it one more try at

1212
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:48,720
los

1213
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:51,119
alamos lab and the runaround that i got

1214
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:52,880
there is what really hooked me on the

1215
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,599
story

1216
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:55,200
because i knew he had been there i had

1217
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,520
talked to people he worked with

1218
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,440
colleagues who had been there lazar took

1219
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:01,520
me into the lab himself we went in one

1220
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,560
sunday

1221
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:04,880
um he just waves to the guard we go

1222
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,960
rolling in with the television camera

1223
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:08,560
he takes us in all these buildings

1224
00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:10,240
places where he'd work people are waving

1225
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:11,440
at him saying hi

1226
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:13,920
he obviously knew his way around nobody

1227
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,720
stopped us

1228
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:16,400
we we went into the giant particle

1229
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,640
accelerator and got video

1230
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,320
and as i said i had talked to people he

1231
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:22,800
worked with there so i knew he was there

1232
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:24,960
and but contacting the lab they told me

1233
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:25,920
nope nobody

1234
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,760
by that name ever worked here we don't

1235
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:29,280
have any records of it

1236
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,359
and so i kept peppering them back with

1237
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,200
uh records requests i got

1238
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:35,119
lazar to sign some papers to try to get

1239
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:36,560
his personnel file

1240
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:39,280
uh they insisted they didn't have any

1241
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:40,320
eventually

1242
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:42,079
i showed him the phone book with his

1243
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,680
name in it and uh

1244
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,920
they said well we still can't explain it

1245
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,680
i showed him the newspaper article from

1246
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:50,000
the los alamos monitor front page story

1247
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,040
bob lazar

1248
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:54,000
and his jet car um it was right there in

1249
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:56,000
which he said he was a physicist and the

1250
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:56,880
newspaper

1251
00:40:00,790 --> 00:40:00,079
a reporter had verified that they still

1252
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:00,800
denied it

1253
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:02,560
i went to a company called kirk meyer

1254
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:04,319
which was a head hunter company they

1255
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:05,440
would hire people

1256
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,200
to fill technical and scientific

1257
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:09,359
positions at the lab and in the in the

1258
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:10,000
los alamos

1259
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,240
phone book you'll see that it had a km

1260
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,839
next to lazar's name they were the

1261
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:15,200
company that hired him

1262
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,359
to fill that position and when i

1263
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:19,440
initially called kirk meyer they said uh

1264
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:20,880
yeah we've got his file

1265
00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:22,319
if you can get a signed statement from

1266
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,319
him we'll send it to you great i get the

1267
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:26,560
sign statement from him i send it to him

1268
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:29,119
and then no nothing weeks go by no

1269
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:30,240
response i said

1270
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:32,240
or wrote to him again i started calling

1271
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:33,359
him up

1272
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:35,520
each time i contacted them they grew

1273
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,720
more hostile

1274
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:38,400
and finally in the end after months and

1275
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,760
months of back and forth they said we

1276
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,200
don't have any records on him

1277
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:44,160
now that to me as a reporter that got my

1278
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,720
attention

1279
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:46,560
because i know he was working there i

1280
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:48,319
know los alamos knew he was working

1281
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:48,720
there

1282
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:50,560
i knew kirkmaier knew they had hired him

1283
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:52,160
to work there and yet they were all

1284
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:54,240
lying to me so that really told me

1285
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:56,000
something weird was going on

1286
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,240
and that's what kept me going and now

1287
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:00,000
you know now we are at a point where

1288
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:03,119
every week every day you know new people

1289
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:05,200
discover this story now new people who

1290
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,960
are just drawn to the ufo topic they

1291
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:07,920
discover it

1292
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:09,599
and so then they'll find something they

1293
00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:11,599
think aha i've made this big discovery

1294
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:13,359
why didn't you tell us he got into legal

1295
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:13,839
trouble

1296
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:15,920
there's no way he'd ever be hired at uh

1297
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:17,200
area s4

1298
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:19,440
or area 51 if he had this kind of a

1299
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:20,800
record well

1300
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:23,040
i have told people that before i have

1301
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,960
explained that not only did he

1302
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,880
get into trouble and not only did we

1303
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,319
report it but i'm the person who

1304
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,000
reported it to the police

1305
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:32,000
because i thought it was necessary and

1306
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:34,240
uh you know so i get hit with that kind

1307
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:34,880
of stuff

1308
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,000
pretty much every day i do get tired of

1309
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:40,079
answering the same questions again

1310
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,560
for people who are new to the story who

1311
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:44,079
have not done their homework

1312
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,079
you know i hear the story about lazar

1313
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,000
and bigelow bigelow tossed him

1314
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,000
out bigelow figured out he was a fake

1315
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:52,240
and he they broke off with him

1316
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:54,800
that's not the way it went um you know

1317
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,319
we recently had an interview with

1318
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:59,520
robert and uh and robert even talked to

1319
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:00,720
joe rogan about it

1320
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:02,400
about the reason that they split and it

1321
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:04,160
was really a much smaller

1322
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:05,200
misunderstanding

1323
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:08,640
that we can go into uh this supposedly

1324
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:11,839
the uh element 115 lazar had

1325
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:14,480
according to some people who spent all

1326
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,599
their time researching

1327
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:17,839
bob lazar if you can believe it they

1328
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,079
think that the element 115

1329
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,560
either wasn't real or lazar was trying

1330
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:24,560
to pass off some other element as

1331
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:27,680
one element 115 or they were using the

1332
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:30,160
lab with bigelope to produce 115 which

1333
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:31,440
is preposterous

1334
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,680
i get hit with this stuff all day long

1335
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,880
and i have to sometimes

1336
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,800
pick and choose whether i want to get

1337
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:38,240
involved in answering it

1338
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:41,280
for the ten thousandths time it is far

1339
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:43,119
easier i will tell you to just let it go

1340
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,480
and let people believe whatever the hell

1341
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:46,480
they want

1342
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:48,560
it's still great hearing you tell parts

1343
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:50,160
of the story back and you made a really

1344
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,680
good an interesting point right at the

1345
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,599
start george where you talk about

1346
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:55,280
you wrote that story and that was

1347
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:57,680
reported for the people of las vegas at

1348
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:58,560
that time

1349
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,200
which is the late 80s you know early 90s

1350
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,359
the world has changed a lot since then

1351
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:05,040
in 30 years and you've got people now

1352
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:06,720
with fresh eyes fresh

1353
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:09,200
you know mindsets right or wrong going

1354
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,319
back and looking at that

1355
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:12,560
is there anything that if you did or

1356
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:14,160
could go back and tell yourself

1357
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:15,920
or give yourself any advice to do with a

1358
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:17,440
story from the start

1359
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,760
what you would give yourself yeah that's

1360
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:21,440
a good question i i don't know i might

1361
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,160
have uh

1362
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:24,240
worked on it for another year before

1363
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,920
releasing it you know we spent eight

1364
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:27,599
months doing it but there's always more

1365
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:28,480
you can do

1366
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:31,200
there's a lot of other uh avenues i

1367
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:32,960
would have liked to gone down

1368
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:35,359
but it back in then you know lazar was

1369
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,640
afraid

1370
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:38,240
he was going to be killed i mean he was

1371
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:40,640
scared this is the hard part

1372
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,400
to convey to people the things that were

1373
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:44,319
going on back then

1374
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:45,760
it's not something you can write in a

1375
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:48,400
document it was real i mean

1376
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:50,319
you know i'd uh had a lot of meetings

1377
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:52,240
with him in those months in between when

1378
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,480
he went on the air as dennis in november

1379
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:56,800
of 89 when we went on the air and told

1380
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,920
his identity

1381
00:44:01,190 --> 00:43:59,280
there were a lot of really strange

1382
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:01,200
things happening to him and to all of us

1383
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:03,200
we were all being followed my phone was

1384
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:03,839
tapped

1385
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:05,280
i mean i know we all assume that

1386
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:06,960
somebody is listening to all phone calls

1387
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:09,119
we make these days are the

1388
00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:10,960
every electronic communication goes into

1389
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:12,800
some gigantic database at least here in

1390
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,680
the us

1391
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:16,319
and that's true but back then i uh i

1392
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:18,079
took umbrage at the idea that somebody

1393
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:20,000
would be tapping the phone of a news

1394
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:22,160
news organization a news reporter

1395
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:23,440
without a warrant

1396
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:25,680
um without uh going through any official

1397
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:27,440
channels just doing it to find out

1398
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:29,119
who else might be contacting me to give

1399
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:31,520
me information to support lazar's story

1400
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:33,920
um you know i i don't know how i do it

1401
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:36,160
differently i'm glad that we did it i'm

1402
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:37,200
glad that it

1403
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,200
is an enduring story i know that a lot

1404
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,880
of people are devoted to trying to

1405
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:42,319
debunk the whole thing

1406
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:46,079
but i'm sorry they lost lazar story won

1407
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:47,680
i can't tell you how many movies it's

1408
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:50,400
been in how how common that theme is

1409
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,560
area 51 is now known all over the world

1410
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,880
and it's because of bob lazar

1411
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,960
prior to lazar the only people who knew

1412
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:58,319
about it were those who either worked

1413
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:59,839
there or lived in nevada and

1414
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,920
were around the base but now it's known

1415
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:03,040
everywhere i mean it's

1416
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:05,200
it's a i wish i had a percentage of

1417
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,720
every business that had been launched

1418
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,319
based on area 51

1419
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:10,720
you know bars and trinkets and posters

1420
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:11,359
and

1421
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:16,720
aaa baseball team in las vegas was the

1422
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:19,200
51s the e.t highway was

1423
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:21,119
christened by the state of nevada that's

1424
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:22,240
all from lazar

1425
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:25,280
um that whole theme of us having alien

1426
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:27,520
technology trying to reverse engineer it

1427
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,599
is coming back you know it's not that it

1428
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:31,520
ever went away but it is you find that

1429
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,240
theme

1430
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:34,640
in a lot of current stories and it stems

1431
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:36,240
from lazar so whether

1432
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:39,599
the debunkers hate it i i know they do

1433
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:42,319
and i want to destroy lazar and pick

1434
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:43,680
away at the story

1435
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:46,160
i'm sorry they lost the world knows that

1436
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,640
story and it's not going to change

1437
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,480
what's to come next in the bob lazar

1438
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:52,560
story is there a next chapter or is it

1439
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,200
finished

1440
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,119
i don't think so i there's no next

1441
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:56,960
chapter from me i'm not doing anything

1442
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:57,839
about it

1443
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,119
um you know uh the

1444
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:03,119
the question about element 115 gets

1445
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:05,200
raised a lot and i i once said in a

1446
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:06,640
presentation

1447
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,240
that i thought i knew where it was and i

1448
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:09,920
did know where it was i don't know where

1449
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,720
it is anymore

1450
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:12,160
i know people don't believe a lot of

1451
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:13,680
people don't believe it exists but he

1452
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:14,880
had a chunk of it

1453
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,240
and it would provide proof positive

1454
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:20,720
but it's not mine to dig up i don't know

1455
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:22,240
where it is anymore

1456
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:24,000
where it's hidden but i'm telling you

1457
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:25,359
had a piece of it and

1458
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:28,560
it would be a pretty definitive proof

1459
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:32,240
if he could somehow present that

1460
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:35,119
uh to some independent party and do a

1461
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,880
demonstration of what it's capable of

1462
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:38,560
doing that would be worth the story but

1463
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:39,839
other than that

1464
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:42,160
i'm i'm inclined to leave bob alone he

1465
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:43,920
doesn't want the attention

1466
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,760
every couple of years i would drag him

1467
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:47,520
out hey it's the 20th anniversary we

1468
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:48,720
need to do a story and he would

1469
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,040
reluctantly go along with it with me

1470
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:54,240
and then he did that film with jeremy

1471
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:55,760
in large part because there was an

1472
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,000
opportunity to tell sort of the personal

1473
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,920
side of what this has been like for him

1474
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:01,920
one that i never focused on i mean i did

1475
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,280
a lot of interviews with him

1476
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:04,800
but it was always about hey how do you

1477
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:06,079
prove where you worked how do you prove

1478
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:07,440
where you went to school that stuff and

1479
00:47:12,790 --> 00:47:09,200
that and the basic story but

1480
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,800
not the story of bob i hope for his sake

1481
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:14,160
that the world leaves him alone from

1482
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,040
here on out

1483
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:17,520
it's been told unless he's got some

1484
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:19,520
really big surprise to one cork on the

1485
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,160
world

1486
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:23,440
uh i'm i'm inclined to leave it alone

1487
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,559
maybe one day i'll get a bit of

1488
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:26,800
vindication if if and when things come

1489
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:28,480
out but who knows

1490
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:30,000
before we get to listen our questions

1491
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,599
george um you're also heavily connected

1492
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:33,119
to skinwalker ranch

1493
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:34,800
what are your thoughts on its ownership

1494
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,960
under brandon fugle uh the ongoing

1495
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:38,640
series with a history channel and what's

1496
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,559
to come next from skinwalker ranch as a

1497
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:42,720
scientific investigation

1498
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:45,280
well i am cur i am encouraged by uh what

1499
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:46,319
brandon has done

1500
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:48,960
with the property and the uh safeguards

1501
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:49,839
he's put in

1502
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:51,440
and the fact that he's continued the

1503
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:53,440
study that he's documenting

1504
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:56,160
uh the events there both through the tv

1505
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:57,520
show and i think he's got some other

1506
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,559
plans for

1507
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:00,079
sharing information about things that

1508
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:01,680
have happened to he and his team on that

1509
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:02,319
property

1510
00:48:06,549 --> 00:48:04,160
he's very open as you know he's on

1511
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,559
social media he answers direct questions

1512
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:08,480
which is very much in contrast with

1513
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:09,680
robert bigelow and

1514
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,160
when he owned the property he holds his

1515
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,319
secrets pretty close to the vest so

1516
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:16,480
i'm encouraged i think brandon's done a

1517
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:18,559
lot of good historical research

1518
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,079
about things that happened there a long

1519
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:21,920
time ago that uh

1520
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:24,160
i i was never able to really fill in

1521
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:25,760
some of those blanks so i look forward

1522
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:26,559
to hearing it

1523
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:29,200
in season two he was the right person to

1524
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,079
take it over

1525
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:31,839
i think robert bigelow would not have

1526
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:33,440
sold it to him if he wasn't the right

1527
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,160
person

1528
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:36,480
uh he has the attitude the same as what

1529
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:37,520
bigelow had

1530
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,920
in that he is a caretaker of a very

1531
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,040
special place

1532
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,119
as we have reported you know the what

1533
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,040
happens on that ranch is not unique just

1534
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,960
to the ranch it is an epicenter in a

1535
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:48,000
sense because it

1536
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,920
it is the most studied paranormal hot

1537
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:51,599
spot ever you know the nid

1538
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,440
study and then the bass study and then

1539
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:55,839
what uh what the brandon and his team

1540
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:57,119
are doing now

1541
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:58,480
i don't think there's any other place in

1542
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:00,240
the world that even comes close to it

1543
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:02,720
but that whole you went to basic has the

1544
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:03,280
same

1545
00:49:06,390 --> 00:49:05,920
kinds of activity and it has been a hot

1546
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,400
spot

1547
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:08,400
for a very long time perhaps hundreds of

1548
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:09,920
years perhaps as long as people have

1549
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:11,200
lived in the basin

1550
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:13,680
uh you know they've been the rep the

1551
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:16,480
book by frank salisbury in the 1970s

1552
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:18,800
the utah ufo display that documented

1553
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:20,079
hundreds of cases

1554
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:22,160
the basis of that book came from a guy

1555
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:24,160
named junior hicks the science teacher

1556
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:24,720
who

1557
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,280
unfortunately died last year but he was

1558
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:29,280
i met him on my first trip to skinwalker

1559
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:30,800
back in the 90s and and

1560
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,920
um and uh it was his work that formed

1561
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,440
the basis of the book and he

1562
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,760
did a lot of uh work with us that helped

1563
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:39,040
us fill in the blanks

1564
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,640
column keller and myself that went into

1565
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:42,400
our book and you know it's a unique

1566
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:42,960
place i

1567
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,800
i don't there aren't many places like it

1568
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:46,079
in the world

1569
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:48,960
and it certainly changed my view of the

1570
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:51,359
ufo topic and i use it in a more generic

1571
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:52,400
sense

1572
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:53,760
because you know when i started this

1573
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:56,480
stuff the dominant paradigm at the time

1574
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:59,119
was ufos or et craft they're solid craft

1575
00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:00,160
from somewhere else

1576
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:02,400
visitors coming here to check us out now

1577
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:03,839
and then but they live somewhere far

1578
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:04,640
away and

1579
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:07,920
skinwalker ex told all of us in very

1580
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:09,599
distinct terms that

1581
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:11,040
this is a bigger mystery than just

1582
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:13,040
things in the sky that there are other

1583
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:14,559
phenomena

1584
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:16,720
that indicate that reality isn't what we

1585
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:18,559
thought it was that the world is far

1586
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:20,480
more mysterious and wondrous and

1587
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:23,200
complex than any of us knew and that

1588
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:25,440
resolving trying to study ufos by

1589
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:26,000
themselves

1590
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:27,839
is not going to get to the bottom of

1591
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,280
whatever this is it's

1592
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:31,760
a lot more complicated and you need to

1593
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:33,520
have a much broader perspective

1594
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,839
if you ever hope to understand it it's

1595
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:37,359
certainly starting to seem that way

1596
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:39,680
george we will go straight into listener

1597
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:41,119
questions there's so much i could have

1598
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,640
spoken about and hopefully down the line

1599
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:44,400
you you see fit to come back on at some

1600
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,920
point we can talk about some more

1601
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:47,920
aspects even about your career outside

1602
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:49,440
of ufos as well

1603
00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:51,359
straight into uh doug campbell sent a

1604
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,200
question for you george has george ever

1605
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:55,440
experienced any so-called hitchhikers at

1606
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:56,000
home

1607
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:58,079
since your visit to skinwalker ranch and

1608
00:51:03,030 --> 00:50:59,599
could you share any experiences you may

1609
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,069
well um

1610
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:08,230
i'll just put it this way i i i believe

1611
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:09,680
that that's hitchhiker

1612
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:12,960
effect is real uh it hasn't i haven't

1613
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:15,440
experienced it myself but my wife has

1614
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:16,880
and uh

1615
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:19,119
robert bigelow's wife did and colin

1616
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,400
kelleher's wife did

1617
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:23,280
and some of the people who went to work

1618
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:25,599
these are government employees who were

1619
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,119
on the ranch uh for a time during the

1620
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,440
bass study it's happened to them and

1621
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:33,359
this stuff spreads like a virus it's

1622
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:34,480
just really weird

1623
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:36,079
we had some things here that i'm not

1624
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,440
going to go into the details that

1625
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:38,880
happened to my wife that were really

1626
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:40,000
kind of frightening

1627
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:42,160
and you know it's it is since it's my

1628
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:44,079
fault because all the visits i've made

1629
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:47,599
about 26 or 7 visits to the ranch over

1630
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:48,240
the years

1631
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,160
i would bring little things home trying

1632
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:52,319
to engage with it you know

1633
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:54,079
basically daring it hey let's see what

1634
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:56,319
you got and i never saw anything not at

1635
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:57,040
the ranch

1636
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:00,079
and not here but it it has been here

1637
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,800
and it's it's caused some problems in my

1638
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:03,680
my home life

1639
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:06,559
yeah thanks for sharing that though um

1640
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:08,240
tim from london has asked have you ever

1641
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,160
been asked by a private company or

1642
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:12,559
government agency to sign an nda

1643
00:52:18,150 --> 00:52:14,480
in the context of technology or

1644
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,160
capabilities related to this subject

1645
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:20,720
had to sign an nda the first time we

1646
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:21,680
went into the

1647
00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:25,040
ranch under brandon fugle

1648
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:26,319
it was not something that he would

1649
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:28,160
enforce it was more like a

1650
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:31,040
you know sort of a test of our motives

1651
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:33,280
if we would sign it he'd let us in if we

1652
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:34,240
didn't but he's

1653
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:36,640
he's been very uh flexible in terms of

1654
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:38,160
what we're allowed to say

1655
00:52:42,309 --> 00:52:40,880
i i have been asked uh at times if i'd

1656
00:52:44,549 --> 00:52:42,319
like to get a security clearance

1657
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:44,559
and uh if i wanted to come into a

1658
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,559
program and um and see

1659
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:48,160
and a lot of things that i would not

1660
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:50,000
otherwise be able to see and i have

1661
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:50,640
declined

1662
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:53,119
that i just figured if i signed it if i

1663
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:54,640
tried to get a security clearance

1664
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:57,599
um to learn this stuff then i really

1665
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:59,599
would be limited in what i could report

1666
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:02,000
and i have i've had some success in just

1667
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:03,280
being patient you know and

1668
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:06,480
in it's not a trick uh to appear

1669
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:07,440
trustworthy

1670
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:11,119
the relationships that i've developed

1671
00:53:14,230 --> 00:53:11,760
over

1672
00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:14,240
many years takes a lot of work you know

1673
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:16,160
it's it's hard to get people to trust

1674
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:17,760
you where they open up and share things

1675
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:18,720
with you

1676
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:20,480
um even though you're not allowed to

1677
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,079
report it and

1678
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:24,079
in most cases you know when people would

1679
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:26,079
just share things with me

1680
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:28,079
i figured well i'm going to report this

1681
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:29,839
someday one way or another and then i

1682
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:32,480
it would allow me to understand things

1683
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,119
uh in a context of where i might not

1684
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:37,440
be able to report fact x that i've

1685
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,359
learned but i'm allowed to

1686
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:41,839
knowing that allows me to evaluate other

1687
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:43,440
information that comes in

1688
00:53:47,349 --> 00:53:45,839
and i know [\h__\h] when i when i see it

1689
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:47,359
you know when somebody is

1690
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,760
spouting some theory because i know this

1691
00:53:52,870 --> 00:53:51,440
over here that i can't report i know

1692
00:53:54,390 --> 00:53:52,880
that they're full of crap

1693
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:54,400
so it's been very helpful and what's

1694
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,240
happened is like with skinwalker

1695
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:58,480
it was seven years like before i could

1696
00:54:01,589 --> 00:53:59,839
report anything on

1697
00:54:02,950 --> 00:54:01,599
what i had known at the ranch but

1698
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:02,960
eventually i got to do it

1699
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:06,079
same thing with bass asap you know i

1700
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:07,359
know a lot of

1701
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,839
a lot but not all of what was going on

1702
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,359
but i knew enough to

1703
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:13,200
know that there was a really big story

1704
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:14,800
going on there but i couldn't report it

1705
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:16,240
because i promised i wouldn't

1706
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:18,480
i always had in mind that i would try to

1707
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:20,000
get to the point where i could report it

1708
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:20,800
someday

1709
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,400
and then when the new york times story

1710
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,000
uh was in the works

1711
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,839
uh that's when i thought the time was

1712
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:27,760
but they did the story and as i said

1713
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:28,640
before

1714
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,200
because i knew so much more there were

1715
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:33,440
plenty of stories for me to follow so

1716
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:37,359
um you know i i have not signed any ndas

1717
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:38,799
regarding the things we're talking about

1718
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:40,640
today the only one that i signed

1719
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,160
that i can remember anyway is with

1720
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:44,240
brandon regarding the ranch

1721
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:46,559
is that invite to get the security

1722
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:48,240
clearance open-ended is that something

1723
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,119
that you could go

1724
00:54:52,789 --> 00:54:51,359
go back and look into now or is that

1725
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:52,799
opportunity going

1726
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:55,359
yeah i think it's gone yeah something

1727
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:56,799
you think you would ever take up if the

1728
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:58,240
opportunity because you're talking about

1729
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:59,520
reporting to get

1730
00:55:03,190 --> 00:55:01,280
information out to the masses which is

1731
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:03,200
really noble and selfless but

1732
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:06,400
for you personally is there no yearning

1733
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:07,119
there for

1734
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:08,160
because i think a lot of people would

1735
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,680
take that opportunity because you can

1736
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:11,280
then learn so much more

1737
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,480
potentially that you can now yeah well

1738
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:16,319
i'm a journalist um that's what i

1739
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:19,200
am that's what i do so for me to agree

1740
00:55:22,710 --> 00:55:20,000
look i'd love

1741
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:22,720
to know what where the goodies are i'd

1742
00:55:26,470 --> 00:55:24,000
love to see them

1743
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:26,480
and i know they're out there but if i

1744
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:27,280
were to know

1745
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:29,119
and uh i could go to prison forever

1746
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:30,720
telling anyone about it i mean that'd be

1747
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:31,599
pretty frustrating

1748
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:33,119
i have thought about it and i've gone

1749
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:34,640
back and forth

1750
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:37,839
um i sure would like to see it i know

1751
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:38,319
that

1752
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:41,200
you know it is it is a tempting thing

1753
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:42,400
and

1754
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:43,680
i'm just going to follow up on that

1755
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:45,119
george because if i was a listener i

1756
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:46,799
would be shouting at myself to ask this

1757
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:47,760
question okay

1758
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,599
when you say um the goodies are out

1759
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:51,040
there do you mean like

1760
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:54,960
crashed material embarrass

1761
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:57,599
okay cool people will be screaming at me

1762
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:58,880
to follow that one up but i'm not going

1763
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:59,920
to i'm just going to leave that a little

1764
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:01,040
bit open-ended

1765
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:02,640
and people it's again it's it's one of

1766
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,680
those things they're going to make of

1767
00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:05,280
that what they will and there's only so

1768
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:06,880
much you can you can even surmise with

1769
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:07,599
that

1770
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:10,319
the walker sorry the walker walker had a

1771
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:11,119
question

1772
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:13,280
asking did anyone ever come forward that

1773
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:15,040
could corroborate bob's story

1774
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:17,040
that maybe potentially studied with him

1775
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:18,079
at mit

1776
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:21,200
or that he was friends with i i did find

1777
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:21,839
a

1778
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:33,280
who used to drop him off there who um

1779
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:34,640
who said that he would drop him off

1780
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:36,559
there didn't go into a classes with him

1781
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:39,680
i don't think the story that bob told

1782
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,559
is exactly what people assume that he

1783
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:44,400
was a regular student at either of those

1784
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:45,119
places

1785
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:46,960
and i have said this before many times

1786
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:48,480
in public

1787
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:49,920
i always thought that the education

1788
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:51,760
claims were the weakest part of lazar's

1789
00:56:54,549 --> 00:56:52,640
story

1790
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:54,559
and you know as we became friends over

1791
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:58,079
the years i said look bob you know

1792
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:59,920
tell the story you tell me i'll

1793
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,359
understand it we'll you know we'll

1794
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:03,520
figure out a way forward on this but

1795
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:06,559
if i could not imagine bob lazar going

1796
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:09,200
to a school and getting a regular degree

1797
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:11,520
if you were if he was required to take

1798
00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:13,440
classes other than science

1799
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,480
uh i can't see him sitting through a

1800
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:18,319
english literature class you know you

1801
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:19,680
used to get degrees in college i don't

1802
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:20,799
know what it's like now but

1803
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:22,480
you had to take a lot of electives in

1804
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:23,920
different areas not just

1805
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:25,359
your own area you couldn't just get a

1806
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:27,680
degree in science he loves science and

1807
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:28,799
electronics

1808
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:30,480
uh but i couldn't imagine him sitting

1809
00:57:33,109 --> 00:57:32,160
through uh his history class or

1810
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:33,119
something like that but

1811
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:35,200
um so i had always offered him that

1812
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:37,040
opportunity look tell me

1813
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,640
what's the deal on the schooling because

1814
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,040
i have said i don't believe you

1815
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:43,359
went to those schools long enough to get

1816
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:44,880
degrees

1817
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:47,200
and he's uh he's he stuck to his guns on

1818
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:47,920
it that he

1819
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,040
was there but i don't think that it

1820
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:53,119
he was there long enough to get master's

1821
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:54,880
degrees in a way that we would

1822
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:56,000
understand

1823
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,160
and again i had to wrestle with that

1824
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:00,640
that uh that fact that he was not being

1825
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:02,319
entirely truthful on that

1826
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:03,920
does it call into question everything

1827
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:05,760
else that he did and the way i resolved

1828
00:58:08,230 --> 00:58:07,920
it for me for purposes of the story was

1829
00:58:12,789 --> 00:58:08,240
los

1830
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,799
scientific and technical position

1831
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,400
and had clearances and worked on

1832
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:17,200
sensitive material sensitive programs

1833
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,640
then it is conceivable he could have

1834
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:20,720
been hired to work out at s4

1835
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:22,960
did he work at los alamos yeah i mean

1836
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:24,079
beyond any doubt

1837
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:26,319
i i have no doubt whatsoever of that

1838
00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:27,599
because i've talked to enough

1839
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:29,440
of his colleagues there and have been

1840
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:30,880
there as i explained before

1841
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:34,000
and so has jeremy corbell so you know i

1842
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:35,040
don't think it's ever going to be

1843
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:36,960
resolved to our satisfaction and people

1844
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,720
who don't want to believe

1845
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:40,480
i understand there's plenty of reasons

1846
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:42,160
why you don't want to believe

1847
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,440
people who do want to believe i

1848
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,119
understand that too it's sort of like a

1849
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:47,520
rorschach test you know lazar

1850
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:49,280
you can pick your poison you can there's

1851
00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:51,520
enough to justify either position

1852
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:54,079
and i'm not interested in convincing

1853
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:54,640
anyone

1854
00:58:58,470 --> 00:58:56,559
of one or another i can just tell you

1855
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:58,480
how i approached it

1856
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:00,319
thanks for that next up brendan has

1857
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,720
asked has george learned of any updates

1858
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:04,720
regarding the christian fundamentalists

1859
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:05,760
in the pentagon

1860
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:08,000
preventing disclosure or investigation

1861
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,079
due to feared demonic elements to do

1862
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:12,319
with the phenomenon

1863
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,079
not really a lot of those people are

1864
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,240
gone uh the people who opposed that

1865
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:18,240
program back in in

1866
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:21,359
2011 2012 they've moved on

1867
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,880
i think they've been replaced by other

1868
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,799
people i do believe that there are still

1869
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:25,920
some people there

1870
00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:27,599
and we've seen evidence of it in recent

1871
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:30,720
weeks that are hostile to the program

1872
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:32,960
and it's a variety of motives too some

1873
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:34,720
of those fundamentalists who were

1874
00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:35,680
worried that we were

1875
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,440
messing with the demons or satan or

1876
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:39,119
something like that um

1877
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:40,319
you know i think there's still an

1878
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:41,839
element of that there but other people

1879
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:43,599
oppose the program for very personal

1880
00:59:45,829 --> 00:59:44,319
reasons

1881
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:45,839
can you imagine if you were lou

1882
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:47,760
elizondo's boss

1883
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,760
on the day that he stepped on that stage

1884
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,760
with ttsa in seattle

1885
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:53,520
and he says that yeah i was involved in

1886
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:55,839
this program and you did not know

1887
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:57,920
um but the fact is as louis always told

1888
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:00,000
the story his immediate supervisor

1889
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:01,920
did not know that he was working on this

1890
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:03,119
program atip

1891
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:04,880
it was the guy above that who had given

1892
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:06,480
the order and cut the

1893
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:08,960
guy in the middle out i think that guy

1894
01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:10,079
is still there

1895
01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:11,520
i think some of the statements we have

1896
01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:14,079
seen from the public affairs lady

1897
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:16,000
who answers foia questions at the

1898
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:17,520
pentagon susan

1899
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:20,640
um i think she has had influence from

1900
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:22,640
some people who have very personal

1901
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:26,079
reasons to uh object to lose new line of

1902
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:26,799
work

1903
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:30,880
and i you know i some of the uh

1904
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:32,400
things that have happened to the uap

1905
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:34,240
task force for example the knee capping

1906
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:35,280
of the task force

1907
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:38,240
might involve very personal motives also

1908
01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:40,160
just the general idea the long history

1909
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:41,920
of the pentagon they don't want to talk

1910
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:42,799
about this stuff

1911
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,559
they still don't want to talk about it

1912
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:46,240
there are legitimate national security

1913
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:47,520
issues involved

1914
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:49,680
and and i think i understand some of

1915
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:51,200
those i think they have a legitimate

1916
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:52,559
case to be made

1917
01:00:56,309 --> 01:00:53,680
you know that we don't want the

1918
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:56,319
technology to be developed by the

1919
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:57,920
russians or chinese first

1920
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,599
we don't want to give them a hint about

1921
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:01,440
how far along we are

1922
01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:03,680
those are legitimate questions but you

1923
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:05,200
know shutting it down

1924
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:07,760
and plugging your ears and covering your

1925
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:08,240
eyes

1926
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:10,559
is not healthy it's not going to resolve

1927
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:12,559
this this issue

1928
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:15,680
they've had this technology being uh

1929
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:17,760
analyzed for a long long time and they

1930
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:19,359
haven't figured it out yet as far as i

1931
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:20,079
know

1932
01:01:24,309 --> 01:01:22,240
and and i think a little sunlight would

1933
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:24,319
do everybody some good

1934
01:01:28,150 --> 01:01:26,400
so this next one changes a topic

1935
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:28,160
slightly still on ufos of course but

1936
01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:29,599
looks for your opinion

1937
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:31,440
simon kelly wants to know why does

1938
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:33,280
george think ufos have an array of

1939
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:35,359
flashing lights when seen at night

1940
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:37,040
simon thinks it could be do to do with

1941
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,480
the fact at night for safety

1942
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:40,079
we as humans turn on lights in the

1943
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:42,160
street at home or light fires

1944
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:43,599
and he thinks they're potentially trying

1945
01:01:47,109 --> 01:01:45,760
to reassure us by mimicking or mirroring

1946
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:47,119
what we do if you get any thoughts on

1947
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:48,319
that george

1948
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:51,040
yeah it sort of sort of goes back to um

1949
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:57,270
the long range the arc of history about

1950
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,079
ufos

1951
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,640
and other kinds of paranormal phenomena

1952
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:02,559
if you want to call it paranormal

1953
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:04,640
is that they show us glimpses of other

1954
01:02:08,789 --> 01:02:06,720
realities we don't know why they show it

1955
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:08,799
to some people and not to others

1956
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:11,440
i think ufos often want to be seen you

1957
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,640
know it might be

1958
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:14,640
want to be seen by a particular audience

1959
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:16,319
or a broad audience like with the

1960
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:17,680
phoenix lights incident or something

1961
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:18,319
like that

1962
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:19,760
i think they want to be seen i think

1963
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:22,160
they are playing some mental games with

1964
01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:22,400
us

1965
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:24,720
i don't know what their long-range uh

1966
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:25,839
objective is or

1967
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:28,079
or why they would uh play it out this

1968
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:29,760
long in this way but

1969
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:31,680
uh i think they put flashing lights on

1970
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,160
there so we'll see them

1971
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:36,880
excellent thanks for that robert asks do

1972
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:39,200
you have any data or knowledge george of

1973
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:40,000
any uap

1974
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:42,240
activity over the cern collider site in

1975
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,670
yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna pass on that

1976
01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:49,839
one for right now um

1977
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:51,359
there's some information that's come my

1978
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:53,680
way that's not uh i i can't release it

1979
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:55,359
right now but i think it will come out

1980
01:02:58,470 --> 01:02:56,640
eventually

1981
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:58,480
okay that's a that's a good tease if

1982
01:03:02,470 --> 01:03:00,000
nothing else i appreciate that

1983
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,480
um martin fuller wants to know um can i

1984
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,400
ask george whether he's aware of any new

1985
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,319
and exciting initiatives globally

1986
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:08,880
to help move the ball downfield uh this

1987
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:10,559
relates to rumors around the possibility

1988
01:03:13,349 --> 01:03:12,640
of the un perhaps being approached and i

1989
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,359
know

1990
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:15,599
uh louis elizondo himself talked about

1991
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,200
an international organization when he

1992
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,520
was on reinsprag somewhere in the skies

1993
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:21,119
potentially looking to get involved in

1994
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:23,599
the discussion in a serious way

1995
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:25,359
well i have had the conversations with

1996
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,599
lou in private about what comes next i

1997
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:29,760
think i'm gonna leave it to him to

1998
01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:32,079
release what information he wants to do

1999
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:34,400
but since he has shared that much with

2000
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:34,880
uh

2001
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:37,200
with ryan i'd say yeah he has he has

2002
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:38,079
some grand

2003
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:40,160
objectives he and chris millen are

2004
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:41,520
looking to take it global

2005
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:43,359
i think they have had interactions with

2006
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:45,200
other governments and are hoping that

2007
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,079
there can be

2008
01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:49,200
a much broader scale study and

2009
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:50,160
initiative

2010
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:52,160
to really move the ball down the field

2011
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:53,520
so yeah

2012
01:03:57,270 --> 01:03:56,480
i am aware that they have plans in that

2013
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:57,280
direction

2014
01:04:01,589 --> 01:04:00,160
how far it's gone i don't know okay the

2015
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:01,599
next one i'm really looking forward to

2016
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:03,200
asking because i was going to ask this

2017
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:04,640
in the body of the interview

2018
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:06,079
and it's something that's been pretty

2019
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:08,480
pretty recent dave lorimer wants to know

2020
01:04:12,549 --> 01:04:10,240
have you been approached to release the

2021
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:12,559
picture of the black triangle ufo that

2022
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:14,319
you have in your possession

2023
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:16,240
now i don't know if you do have one in

2024
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:17,760
your possession and he's just take so

2025
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:19,599
you're shaking your head so that's a no

2026
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:22,240
but i of course uh would like to know

2027
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:23,839
your thoughts on this

2028
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,480
supposed uh and which i do here exists

2029
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:28,079
black triangle picture

2030
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:30,319
taken from the cockpit of a fighter jet

2031
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:32,160
again on what i'm assuming is a camera

2032
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:32,960
phone

2033
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:34,880
um and we're hearing quite recently

2034
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:36,799
james fox on i think it was

2035
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:38,960
logan paul the youtubers channel

2036
01:04:42,230 --> 01:04:39,839
mentioned this

2037
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:42,240
triangle ufo emerging from the water is

2038
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:44,960
about the size of a football field

2039
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,280
well i have made inquiries about a photo

2040
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:49,359
of a triangle emerging from the water

2041
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:52,880
and no one that i know has seen it

2042
01:04:57,670 --> 01:04:55,920
there are photos of ufo

2043
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:57,680
triangles for sure in the possession of

2044
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:59,599
our military there are videos that the

2045
01:05:03,029 --> 01:05:00,880
public has not seen

2046
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:03,039
there are pretty substantial videos and

2047
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,160
photos

2048
01:05:08,230 --> 01:05:06,640
and some of them are triangles but the

2049
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:08,240
particular photo that we're talking

2050
01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:10,000
about of a triangle coming out of the

2051
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:10,640
water

2052
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:13,440
no one that i know has seen that photo

2053
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:15,119
there are some other photos

2054
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:18,720
that have taken on cell phones by um

2055
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,359
pilots by f-18 pilots that i have seen

2056
01:05:23,910 --> 01:05:23,200
so when the story came out about this

2057
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:23,920
triangle

2058
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:26,880
and then we saw the batman balloon uh

2059
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,000
photo

2060
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:30,480
uh i had said yeah i've seen that i i

2061
01:05:33,349 --> 01:05:31,520
got a copy of it but

2062
01:05:35,589 --> 01:05:33,359
it actually i got a copy of something

2063
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:35,599
different taken by the same pilot at the

2064
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:36,720
same time

2065
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:39,200
and it does not show a photo a batman

2066
01:05:43,990 --> 01:05:40,640
balloon it does not show

2067
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:44,000
a triangle but it is um the same pilot

2068
01:05:47,349 --> 01:05:45,119
same time

2069
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:47,359
from a different angle i suspect that

2070
01:05:51,990 --> 01:05:48,799
that same pilot took

2071
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:52,000
more photos that there might be

2072
01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:54,720
a string of photos taken in that same

2073
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:55,760
exchange

2074
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:57,359
and i wouldn't be surprised if all of

2075
01:06:01,109 --> 01:05:58,799
the different angles look like a

2076
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:01,119
different object

2077
01:06:04,630 --> 01:06:03,200
okay so within the body of that article

2078
01:06:06,549 --> 01:06:04,640
that was released on the debrief

2079
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:06,559
it seemed to mention that the object was

2080
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:08,640
cube shaped and that surprised people

2081
01:06:11,910 --> 01:06:09,599
that the object

2082
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:11,920
on the photo happened to very quickly

2083
01:06:15,990 --> 01:06:13,920
look like a batman mylar balloon

2084
01:06:17,750 --> 01:06:16,000
um and let's be honest it doesn't look

2085
01:06:18,549 --> 01:06:17,760
like a batman balloon there's no batman

2086
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:18,559
logo on it

2087
01:06:21,829 --> 01:06:20,720
people have transposed the image and

2088
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:21,839
it's very

2089
01:06:25,190 --> 01:06:23,680
very close to being what that batman

2090
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:25,200
balloon looks like in shape

2091
01:06:28,470 --> 01:06:26,880
but there's clearly no picture of batman

2092
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:28,480
on the front of it but

2093
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:30,240
you're saying that there potentially or

2094
01:06:33,029 --> 01:06:31,760
there are other photographs taken from

2095
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:33,039
different angles

2096
01:06:36,950 --> 01:06:34,720
potentially by the same pilot of the

2097
01:06:40,309 --> 01:06:36,960
same incident that would show that

2098
01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:40,319
it's not a batman balloon yeah though

2099
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:42,880
i would say that those other photos show

2100
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,520
each one

2101
01:06:47,109 --> 01:06:45,359
shows something different like it's a

2102
01:06:48,630 --> 01:06:47,119
depends on your angle how it looks

2103
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:48,640
either that or the thing is changing

2104
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:49,200
shapes

2105
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:51,520
that would be my guess but i i don't i

2106
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:53,359
don't know if uh those photos are going

2107
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:54,079
to be

2108
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:55,920
uh released or not but they're very

2109
01:06:58,069 --> 01:06:57,359
intriguing but i would not say they're

2110
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:58,079
definitive

2111
01:07:02,069 --> 01:07:00,480
and and none of the ones that i have

2112
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,079
heard about or seen

2113
01:07:05,829 --> 01:07:04,319
show a triangle i don't i'm not saying

2114
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:05,839
the triangle doesn't exist

2115
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:07,440
but as far as i know the triangle coming

2116
01:07:12,069 --> 01:07:10,240
out of the water photo does not exist

2117
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:12,079
and i just know for a fact if we do see

2118
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:13,520
those other photographs from different

2119
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:15,359
angles people just claim they're peppa

2120
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:16,480
pig balloons and other

2121
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:18,880
such shapes no doubt so you you cannot

2122
01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:19,920
please everyone but that's really

2123
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:21,359
interesting i really do hope that those

2124
01:07:24,390 --> 01:07:22,240
do come out

2125
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:24,400
um barry wants to know does george know

2126
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:26,480
of a different us government program

2127
01:07:29,990 --> 01:07:28,319
other than atep or osap that was

2128
01:07:33,109 --> 01:07:30,000
potentially hidden behind those have you

2129
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:33,119
had any hint of that sort of thing

2130
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:36,480
yeah um yeah there are other little

2131
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:41,119
pockets of uh of information um

2132
01:07:44,789 --> 01:07:42,640
you know a lot you know we've all all

2133
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:44,799
speculated about where some of the real

2134
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:47,200
good hardware might be and and uh the

2135
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:49,039
general consensus from people that i

2136
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:49,920
i've spoken to

2137
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,000
is that it's stashed in private

2138
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,640
companies and aerospace companies

2139
01:07:57,670 --> 01:07:56,640
maybe even in foreign countries so that

2140
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:57,680
uh

2141
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:59,280
people like us who are looking for it

2142
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:00,880
can't find it but uh

2143
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:03,280
there are uh people inside the

2144
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:04,079
government who

2145
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,240
interact with those folks and um

2146
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:10,400
i have an idea about where one of them

2147
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:11,280
is uh

2148
01:08:14,950 --> 01:08:13,200
at least where one of them was not too

2149
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:14,960
long ago um

2150
01:08:19,990 --> 01:08:17,679
but uh knocking on that door it's a hard

2151
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:20,000
door to get through i'll put it that way

2152
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:22,080
i can imagine and that's when i look

2153
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:23,199
forward to potentially hearing a little

2154
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:24,799
bit more down the line

2155
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:27,359
and the last question uh for this part

2156
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:28,400
of the show from uh

2157
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:30,880
listener bob is as an investigative

2158
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:32,319
journalist has george ever been

2159
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:34,159
approached by the us government

2160
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:36,400
and told not to report certain events

2161
01:08:39,269 --> 01:08:37,520
that may have happened around bob

2162
01:08:41,749 --> 01:08:39,279
lazarsk and walker ranch

2163
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,759
or any other ufo related stories in the

2164
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,440
uk the government can issue a d

2165
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,600
notice to the press to stop them talking

2166
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:47,440
about certain things

2167
01:08:51,189 --> 01:08:49,600
no i always wished it would happen that

2168
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:51,199
i get a knock at the door and somebody

2169
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:52,000
threatened me you better

2170
01:08:56,149 --> 01:08:54,000
stop that or else because that would

2171
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:56,159
confirm yeah i'm on the right track

2172
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:58,000
so i don't know if the stories that i've

2173
01:09:02,309 --> 01:08:59,920
done they don't care about them at all

2174
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:02,319
or they don't want to risk making it

2175
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:04,080
into a bigger incident by me telling

2176
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:06,400
that i've been threatened or

2177
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:08,960
you know or i'm so far off the track

2178
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:10,480
they think it's hilarious

2179
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:12,080
and they'll just let me go on my merry

2180
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:14,080
way but no i've never had anybody

2181
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:16,000
come and tell me to knock it off i have

2182
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,000
a lot of government related people who

2183
01:09:22,229 --> 01:09:20,159
have tried to lead me down other paths

2184
01:09:23,269 --> 01:09:22,239
give me information that would take up

2185
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:23,279
my time and be

2186
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:25,839
a waste of my time and resources and and

2187
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:27,359
lead me

2188
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:28,799
towards stuff that would probably

2189
01:09:32,789 --> 01:09:30,480
discredit um

2190
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:32,799
my reputation and and lead to all kinds

2191
01:09:36,229 --> 01:09:34,000
of trouble that's happened

2192
01:09:37,669 --> 01:09:36,239
a bunch of times but nobody's told me to

2193
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:37,679
stop it

2194
01:09:41,269 --> 01:09:40,239
not yet uh there's a few more listener

2195
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:41,279
questions george but

2196
01:09:44,390 --> 01:09:42,480
george is going to spend a few more

2197
01:09:46,470 --> 01:09:44,400
minutes with me over on patreon.com

2198
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:46,480
forward slash that ufo podcast

2199
01:09:49,669 --> 01:09:48,080
just to answer a few more of those

2200
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:49,679
questions and you can sign up to the

2201
01:09:52,709 --> 01:09:50,960
from the one dollar level just to

2202
01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:52,719
support and pledge to the show to hear a

2203
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:54,239
lot more exclusive content

2204
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:55,760
but before we wrap up we've got the

2205
01:09:59,110 --> 01:09:57,280
quick fire round as well

2206
01:10:00,630 --> 01:09:59,120
george i'm going to read off some topics

2207
01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:00,640
that we've discussed or touched on

2208
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:02,560
and i just like one or a few words on

2209
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:04,880
each one to give to sum up your thoughts

2210
01:10:09,669 --> 01:10:08,000
so the first one is area 51. what are

2211
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:09,679
you asking me to do now i'm sorry

2212
01:10:13,590 --> 01:10:11,520
sorry so a quick fire round so i'm going

2213
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:13,600
to read off a few topics or names

2214
01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:15,120
and just ask you to share either a

2215
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:16,719
couple of words or a sentence on your

2216
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:18,239
thoughts on that

2217
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:21,360
so the first one is area 51

2218
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:25,360
incredible uh vital national security

2219
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:26,080
facility

2220
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:29,679
the place where we won the cold war

2221
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:31,920
i i have utmost respect for the people

2222
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:34,320
who are out there and toil and obscurity

2223
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:41,270
an interesting complex guy a brilliant

2224
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:42,400
guy

2225
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:44,640
who has been through hell because of the

2226
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:46,320
story that he's told

2227
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:49,840
um i hope that he finds peace and um

2228
01:10:54,630 --> 01:10:52,560
but i suspect that the the final chapter

2229
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:54,640
has not been written

2230
01:10:59,189 --> 01:10:57,280
skinwalker ranch this is the most

2231
01:11:01,430 --> 01:10:59,199
amazing place in the world had totally

2232
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:01,440
changed my views of these subject

2233
01:11:05,189 --> 01:11:02,239
matters and

2234
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:05,199
how interrelated ufos are with other

2235
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:06,320
kinds of mysteries

2236
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:10,239
uh you know i i am thankful for the time

2237
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:11,280
i spent there

2238
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:14,800
i'm not sure i'd ever go back the nimitz

2239
01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:17,360
princeton incident of 2004.

2240
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,199
that's one of the most important ufo

2241
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,280
cases maybe the most important of all

2242
01:11:26,070 --> 01:11:23,679
time because it is so well documented

2243
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:26,080
the witnesses are so credible and

2244
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:27,520
because there's a video

2245
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:30,480
to go along with dave fravor's testimony

2246
01:11:32,790 --> 01:11:31,440
that story

2247
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:32,800
made the front page of the new york

2248
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:34,560
times and it changed this subject

2249
01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:37,280
forever do you think just to follow on

2250
01:11:41,189 --> 01:11:38,960
that that could be our modern day

2251
01:11:43,189 --> 01:11:41,199
roswell given we have

2252
01:11:44,709 --> 01:11:43,199
witnesses who are still alive you're not

2253
01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:44,719
having to speak to grandchildren

2254
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:46,640
and there's a evidence in the form of

2255
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:47,760
you know radar and

2256
01:11:51,830 --> 01:11:49,840
other things like that yeah i think

2257
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:51,840
absolutely i know that there was a

2258
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:53,199
considerable analysis

2259
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:56,400
done for under ossap and bass that has

2260
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,600
not been made public

2261
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:59,760
i also know that there is additional

2262
01:12:02,709 --> 01:12:01,440
information that still sits in the

2263
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,719
pentagon somewhere

2264
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:04,640
that could document it further so yeah

2265
01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:06,719
it is crucial it's huge that story

2266
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:08,159
changed everything

2267
01:12:11,669 --> 01:12:09,600
because of the credibility of dave

2268
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:11,679
fravor because of the video evidence

2269
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:13,199
because of the other people the crew

2270
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:14,719
members who came forward

2271
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:18,480
it's huge for you george is it ufo

2272
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:21,600
or uap i'm still i'm an old old-time guy

2273
01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:23,199
i still use ufo i

2274
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:25,040
in fact i use flying saucers now and

2275
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:27,120
then too so um

2276
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:29,679
it depends on the context i'll use uap

2277
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:31,280
if we're talking about the uap task

2278
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:31,760
force

2279
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:34,560
or the pentagon programs because it fits

2280
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:34,880
there

2281
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:37,679
i use ufo pretty much everywhere else

2282
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:39,440
excellent and the last one what does

2283
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:42,640
disclosure mean to you i'm not holding

2284
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,679
my breath

2285
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:45,679
uh i don't think the day will ever come

2286
01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:47,360
where the president stands behind a

2287
01:12:51,990 --> 01:12:49,600
lectern and tells us yeah we've got ufos

2288
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:52,000
we've got crash saucers we've got bodies

2289
01:12:55,510 --> 01:12:53,760
sorry to be lying to you all these years

2290
01:12:58,390 --> 01:12:55,520
but we had to do it

2291
01:13:00,149 --> 01:12:58,400
i think it's a slow process i i don't

2292
01:13:01,750 --> 01:13:00,159
think there will be a definitive moment

2293
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:01,760
where suddenly aha we all

2294
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:05,040
know the secrets um i think because of

2295
01:13:09,910 --> 01:13:06,800
the efforts of people like de long

2296
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:09,920
and lou and chris and robert bigelow and

2297
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:10,960
bob lazar

2298
01:13:14,550 --> 01:13:12,880
that we are being allowed to see more

2299
01:13:16,149 --> 01:13:14,560
and more as we go along i

2300
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:16,159
i look forward to what the next few

2301
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:18,640
years bring but again i'm not holding my

2302
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:18,960
breath

2303
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:20,719
i don't think there's ever going to be a

2304
01:13:25,510 --> 01:13:22,239
day when we're going to have disclosure

2305
01:13:27,669 --> 01:13:25,520
confirmation yes disclosure now

2306
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:27,679
george how can listeners follow yourself

2307
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:29,360
on social media and keep up to date with

2308
01:13:33,030 --> 01:13:30,880
your work as well

2309
01:13:35,189 --> 01:13:33,040
mystery wire i thank you for asking that

2310
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:35,199
but i put all my stuff on mystery wire i

2311
01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:35,760
have

2312
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:37,600
huge archives you see this mess behind

2313
01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:39,920
me here i tried to save everything

2314
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:41,440
sometimes it gets lost

2315
01:13:45,669 --> 01:13:43,840
but all the video interviews i've done

2316
01:13:48,470 --> 01:13:45,679
many of which have only been seen in

2317
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:48,480
tiny snippets uh in sound bites

2318
01:13:52,630 --> 01:13:50,159
we're releasing the raw stuff we're

2319
01:13:55,990 --> 01:13:52,640
producing new content new interviews

2320
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:56,000
uh and new stories it's a

2321
01:13:58,950 --> 01:13:57,600
i'm pretty proud of the work we're doing

2322
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:58,960
on that site and i hope people will

2323
01:14:04,149 --> 01:14:01,120
check it out i know that the uk

2324
01:14:06,229 --> 01:14:04,159
has problems in accessing mystery wire

2325
01:14:08,229 --> 01:14:06,239
the lawyers for our company i promise

2326
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:08,239
you and if it was my site we'd figure

2327
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:09,600
out a way to make it available to

2328
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:10,320
everyone

2329
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:12,000
and the lawyers that represent the

2330
01:14:15,910 --> 01:14:14,159
company that owns klas

2331
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:15,920
say they're working on it to resolve

2332
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:17,199
these issues

2333
01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:19,360
it's very frustrating i get 100 messages

2334
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:20,800
a week from people angry because they

2335
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:21,280
can't

2336
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:23,920
read the content but they can see it

2337
01:14:27,270 --> 01:14:25,120
every video that we

2338
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,280
put up on the site is mystery wire

2339
01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:29,280
youtube it's viewable everywhere

2340
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:30,560
and hopefully we're going to have this

2341
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:32,960
issue regarding the the text

2342
01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:35,760
um available to all of our uh our

2343
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:37,120
friends in the uk and

2344
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,960
european union that's great george

2345
01:14:44,070 --> 01:14:42,320
thanks for coming on george look forward

2346
01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:44,080
to speaking to again in the future that

2347
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:44,400
is

2348
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,440
please remember to leave the podcaster

2349
01:14:54,310 --> 01:14:51,600
review on your chosen platform

2350
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:54,320
you can like retweet and subscribe that

2351
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:56,239
would all be very much appreciated

2352
01:14:59,750 --> 01:14:57,679
the shows are being uploaded onto

2353
01:15:01,750 --> 01:14:59,760
youtube as we speak more and more

2354
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:01,760
you can sign up at patreon.com forward

2355
01:15:05,669 --> 01:15:04,400
slash that ufo podcast to access shows

2356
01:15:07,910 --> 01:15:05,679
ad free as well

2357
01:15:10,070 --> 01:15:07,920
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2358
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:10,080
instagram that ufo podcast

2359
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:13,920
of course on twitter it's at ufouapam

2360
01:15:46,180 --> 01:15:16,000
and again folks as always keep looking

2361
01:15:46,190 --> 01:15:50,830
[Music]

2362
01:15:50,840 --> 01:16:04,830
and

2363
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:08,820
cuz

2364
01:16:08,830 --> 01:16:18,830
[Music]

2365
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:20,709
was i helped out my boys they thought

2366
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:22,080
this was noise they thought it was a

2367
01:16:44,390 --> 01:16:34,510
dream they thought it was my toys

2368
01:16:54,310 --> 01:16:49,740
and what's that

2369
01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:54,320
[Music]

2370
01:17:16,850 --> 01:17:03,670
your serious

2371
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:24,709
[Music]

2372
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:37,660
saucer

2373
01:17:58,290 --> 01:17:47,350
[Music]

2374
01:18:24,830 --> 01:17:58,300
it's very different